[BTS] Shadow Game: Prince [BUFFY]

[SlimJim01]

Hi! So, per Gumbolt's recommendation I've decided to do a shadow game. Even though I do win most of my games now, I get "confused", for a lack of a better word, in the early game.
What I mean is that I settle a bunch of cities, but that's all I focus on. I don't really try to improve them *unless there an obvious resource) until I'm finished settling all the cities I want.
I'm hopping I can get some valuable insight!

So, let's start.
I think you'll agree that is a pretty good starting location. I'm thinking of moving my settler on the hill where my Warrior is, because then I'll get access to two more Sugar, still be on a river, and it'll free up the river plain for a Cottage/ Farm (Irrigation could be good to make wet corn)!

Spoiler :

 

[Qactus]

You definitely want to settle on a 3food-tile here. Settling on the banana T0 is the obvious choice. I'd nevertheless scout NE with the warrior first just in case there's something amazing north which could lead me to settling on a sugar T1. Don't know what that would have to be though that'd make up for having those BFC jungles and giving up the southern river tiles.

 

[coanda]

It's strongly advised that you turn off goody huts for a shadow game. There are two reasons for this - one, the degree of random chance they inject into the game can be big enough to hide whether your decisions were actually good or bad (e.g., if you make a bad tech choice but happen to get the "correct" tech out of a goody hut, you might not learn that you really needed to be researching that other tech first). Two, it becomes very hard for human players to get more than one or two goody huts on high difficulties - the AIs, with all their starting units, just explore too quickly. So if you learn strategies that "rely on" capturing a handful of goody huts those won't scale well if you're looking to improve your play and move up in difficulty.

Faster / earlier rewards generally trump long-term gains when settling your first couple of cities. Particularly with your very first city, getting a 3-food or 2-hammer tile instead can mean finishing your starting worker 3 turns earlier, and in the long run you'll be around 3-5 turns earlier to everything all game long. Because Calendar is a long ways off, it's very frequently a good deal to just settle on top of a calendar resource for the extra 1 tile yield in your city itself. So my inclination would be to settle on the bananas, although you'll want to move the warrior and see what it reveals first.

 

[Gumbolt]

For me fractal, high sea level is not good. Better to play Pangea map with no huts and normal sea level.

In terms of this map, settling on banana could be good. Won't be useful till calendar. Clearly want bronze working early here with so much forest.

I tend to only move to hill if it's plains hill and I am gaining the extra base hammer. I rarely move onto forest hills.

 

[Fippy]

Think i can say it for learning purposes..settling on the warrior hill looks like your worst possible option
You would also move away from some green river south.

Settling on gives more unknown tiles (besides the already mentioned 3 city tile), in a direction that looks really nice.

 

[SlimJim01]

I settled on the banana per... well everyone's recommendation. From what I gather, if I start near a Calendar source it's best to settle on it because of the immediate benefits. (Someone did tell me that short term benefits outweigh long term benefits in CIv4, so I guess it checks out). However, I also read that it's best to settle cities on worthless tiles, because then you can maximize the use of every other tile. So, which one is it?
I picked Bronze Working since, as Gumbolt stated, I'm going to get a lot of use here.
Went Worker first and sent him to improve Corn. Then, I started production on an another Warrior, so the city can grow.
I scouted south instead of north (whoops) and found elephants, stone and pigs.

Spoiler :

There seems to be several good options for cities here (which I've marked out).
My Warrior is going to do a circle to see if there's anything good on the left side.

It's strongly advised that you turn off goody huts for a shadow game.

Ah, so this is what people meant by "avoid goodie huts". I've just been literally avoiding them. Will do next time!


Also, I feel compelled to mention that this is a beautiful view. The twin rivers flowing into the sea, that is.

 

[pigswill]

I suspect that I won't be the only to comment that your city suggestions are problematic in view of the apparent absence of food resources. No food = no growth. Studying further indicates a possible food resource two south of stone, if that's the case then creative Willem has a viable city on the stone. Whether its the best site for city 2 remains to be seen, sending warrior north between you and Babylon should answer that.

 

[Gumbolt]

The issue here is lack of scouting around capital to find food resources.

Warrior went too far away from capital and should head back and scout round capital asap.

Why not have a helper city near your capital. Jungle sugar albeit it may have health issues. Maybe 3 north of capital? I assume you will want a city to grab sea food. Sugar can be irrigated.

Your new cities need to have 2-4 tiles between them and capital. 2 helper cities could help run 4-5 cottages for the capital. Which is why you need to clear the river forest around capital quickly.

Why you want cities 5-6+ tiles away I don't know. They look terrible and have no food to grow. A strong bureau capital here will transform your economy.

 

[SittinDown]

Agree with Gumbolt's suggestions. Also like 3-North of capital as a possible 2nd city. Can share corn, and help work cottages.

I'm interested in why you like the farther away area? Are you concerned about claiming / blocking land from your rivals?

 

[konata_LS]

A city on the stone is worth considering, given that there is a grass hill pig 2S of the stone, though it's hard to notice the piggy in the screenshot at #6.

Spoiler Hill piggy 2S of the stone :

Unfortunately I cannot tell if the grass hill pig is covered under the jungle or not. Would you mind posting a screenshot with more details around the stone-ivory-pig area, please? That'll help the decision-making.

As people suggested above, 3N of the capital (marked in red circle) is a good spot. It's nice and close, shares food, and helps growing cottage for the capital.

Another option for cities is 1S of the jungle dye (marked in another red circle). Willem starts with Fishing, so the city can build/chop workboat once it's founded. FIN clam is 4 3, very nice commerce boost before getting Pottery.

 

[Fippy]

On dye looks much better, sure it's a decent tile later but you get more sharing options with Amsterdam.
(and not that important..but any forest kept counts for something )

 

[sampsa]

2nd city on northern sugar seems very obvious to me. Marked sites are garbage and the scouting hasn't been good, as already pointed out. Still plenty of time for the warrior to find food, though.

edit: ah yes you are CRE, so on dye is also a good spot. Probably 3rd city though, just weaker and needs more setting up vs on sugar.

 

[SlimJim01]

No food = no growth

Why you want cities 5-6+ tiles away I don't know

Are you concerned about claiming / blocking land from your rivals?

I'm aware that it's absolutely not an ideal spot. I was only thinking about it so I could get the resources. Not that I was going to do much with them right now. But they wouldn't have them either.

Maybe 3 north of capital?

As people suggested above, 3N of the capital (marked in red circle) is a good spot.

As it turns out, it's an excellent spot. Corn and Copper!
There's also Rice on the right. Either the Sugar or the Grass Hill could be good spots.

Spoiler :

About to finish chopping on the next turn. Should I whip or chop a Settler? Or both?

Would you mind posting a screenshot with more details around the stone-ivory-pig area, please?

Here you go, boss.

Spoiler :

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay actually loaded the save.
On the dye works as it gets the 2x sugar and the sea resource. Might not be great for 5 turns but you start with fishing. Small danger jungle will spread to the other sugar resource.
Which makes northern sugar work.
The worker can head back and do a circle of the capital.

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay cross post. The stone site could be good for blocker site too.
Settling on sugar is still nice. I would want a city to grab copper and pigs.

Zooming out you can see 3 lots of AI culture. NE, E and SE.
I still think grab the corn first. You want to rush out settlers to the best eastern sites after. So 3 cities by 2000bc and heavy chopping. Where to fit a second worker.

Settler now looks good. Chop away till done. Wait for more advice,

Warrior neeeds to guard city locations or finish scouting around the capital. You have 12 turns to decide on best spots.

Where are you going tech wise? Pottery early?

 

[Fippy]

I would take the 3N city (on plains forest) over settling on sugar here.
Copper is better than 3 city tile imo, with FIN the river sugar also makes a good cottage.

Settler 2 pop whip at size 4 looks nice.
Chop could go into settler, then switch back to warrior until you reach size 4.
1 turn of a plains forest worked while growing can complete your warrior before the settler whip action, if you want him out (makes sense i think..he could look west).

Worker (with warrior securing him by moving back 1se) can chop 2N next (new city tile).
That forest will be in your culture just in time, and it saves one turn moving for the settler later if you pick that city spot.

 

[SlimJim01]

So I decided to settle the Forest Plain first. Then I settled the sugar (since I can get silk and more overlap with Utrecht). I also spotted a really good location with rice and fish, however I decided to settle on the Dye because: a) Don't have Iron Working yet
b) I get more immediate use out of the dye city. Can easily settle a city later.
Got a couple of warriors and plan to use them for fog busting and scouting (there's a good location with cow and silk).
The current plan is to chop/whip some workers so I can improve nearby resources, and then cottage the Capital.

Where are you going tech wise? Pottery early?

Yup. Seemed like the best course of action. Don't really need anything else. Going for Math now. Would help with chopping.

I'm thinking on building a farm where my worker is for irrigation. Down the line, of course.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[Gumbolt]

Well you raced ahead here.

 

[SlimJim01]

Well you raced ahead here.

Oh, sorry!
I thought I was supposed to build 3 cities and then get back to you.

 

[Gumbolt]

No that was me plotting where you might get. I would of waited. Fippy is great at micro. Whipping at size 4 made a lot of sense. Nothing horrible with your approach but perhaps roll back save and wait once settler built. Size 4. 3t settler with 1 chop.

Need to think timing of next 2 chops to fit in with whip. Chop river forests first.