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Shame of Britain's Muslim schools

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cheetah, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

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    Apologist rubbish.

    I don't know how you can call me a bigot when there are so many schools like these that are clearly designed to propogate a parrallel, hateful culture at odds with the host culture of the country they live in.

    I have nothing against intergated, europeanised Muslims with moderate and acceptable beliefs that do not go against everything this country stands for.

    I don't know how you can call me a bigot for objecting to innocent children being brainwashed into hating my culture and my way of life after the 7/7 attack on London, which was carried out if I remember correctly, by so-called ''English'' people. I don't know why it is so unreasonable for me to want immigrants to this country to actively participate and assimilate into our culture, instead of living in parrallel, in ghettoes and communities ridden with crime and unemployment, which only increases racial tension and xenophobia.

    Protestants and Catholics, and particularly ''cultural'' Christians are what make up our population, their schools do not teach children to hate westerners or encourage terrorism. No objection.

    And in my experience Jews, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus and Orthodox Christians are very willing to integrate into our culture, and their schools I would assume do not teach their children this kind of rubbish. No objection there either.

    I'm not saying that no Muslims integrate, and I suppose these ones could reasonably run saturday or summer schools, but they would need to carefully monitorred. However the vast majority that refuse to integrate are one of the major problems this country currently faces.
     
  2. Quackers

    Quackers The Frog

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    Arwon seriously every post you write is full of anger and ends with calling the quoted person a whatever the flavour of the month is in leftist circles. Will you be a racist/sexist/homophobe today? Arwon decides!
     
  3. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    Given that you are a confirmed racist, Arwon doesn't need to decide about you...

    but i don't understand why some on the left apologise for/play down how bad this sort of thing is. It's utterly appalling.
     
  4. Quackers

    Quackers The Frog

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    I'm not a racist. If you knew anything about my personal life you would know :p

    Anyway your a Communist I would say that is about the same evil as a fascist. Check out my consistent values thread.
     
  5. Arwon

    Arwon

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    I want even-handed attitudes to private schools. They ALL perpetuate seperate parallel cultures. That's the entire point of private schools. Either abolish them all or set stringent standards tied to funding. Don't just blame one socially unpopular group for exploiting the freedom available to all.

    Clearly you have a very blinkered view of the diversity of private schools which exist if you think that all Islamic schools teach a set of teachings distasteful to secular progressivism, and that only Islamic ones do.

    Christian schools range from quasi-public perfectly ordinary Catholic primary schools to the insane brainwashing separatist creepiness of the Exclusive Brethren. Islamic schools range from perfectly normal schools with either Arabic language classes or a bit of Islamic scripture and no pork, to Saudi-funded nutjob schools like this.

    So, to focus on one extreme manifestation within one unpopular religion's utlisation of a latitude granted the private school sector in general... what would you call that? Freedom for all except the religions we don't like? Bugger off, yo.
     
  6. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

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    No they don't all perpetuate seperate parrallel cultures. There's a massive, massive difference between a suplimentary saturday school that teaches children about their heritage in a way that is complimentary to european values, and this kind of utter, hateful brainwashing. The teachers at this school are responsible for encouraging hate crime and non-integration with the people of the country these people inhabbit. That is the problem.

    If Sikhs were doing this it would be no different. If Catholics were doing this it would be no different. To my knowledge this kind of violence and hateful brainwashing only occurs in significant amounts in Muslim schools.
     
  7. Arwon

    Arwon

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    I'm not even just talking about religious schools. Private schools are designed to separate one section of a culture from the rest, even if it's just "rich kids".

    But yes, if you think "only Islamic schools do bad things" or "all Islamic schools do bad things" you're quite wrong. Seriously, do you know notihng about the Catholic Church and education? Do you know nothing about the sort of schools fringe evangelicals run if given the chance? Just cos the Daily Mail loves to poke its cameras at the brown kids doesn't mean that's a complete picture.
     
  8. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    We aren't talking about other schools in this thread, we're talking about this one. When someone brings up Irish paedophile priests it isn't your job to bring up Dutch ones just to show how even-handed you are. When someone brings up US imperialism and butchery, you don't automatically need to bring up German equivalency. If someone points out Chinese human rights abuses, there is no relevance in pointing out that human rights are bad in other countries too.

    This is an example of an absolutely appalling school which should be totally condemned, not used as an example of how, hey, everyone is as bad as eachother.
     
  9. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    As far as I can tell, people have condemned the behaviour of the school. There hasn't been any 'apologism', just people pointing out that drawing conclusions about a whole group, as has been done, is completely off.
     
  10. Arwon

    Arwon

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    When someone brings up an appalling thing JUST to bash the people they don't like, who are tangentially associated with that thing... it's important to provide context and to point out that the entire group they're bashing is not tainted by the appalling thing.

    When a normally anti-feminist Tory starts discovering women's rights when it can be a bat to bash immigrants, that shouldn't be let fly uncommented. When that same tory, normally a staunch supporter of private education and school choice (and probably of a Tory government which is seeking to expand the reach and diversity of private schools), starts using a private school chosen by parents to bash immigrants, that should likewise not be left uncommented.
     
  11. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    Keep in mind the post Arwon was replying to.
     
  12. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

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    Totally irrelevent. And besides, private schools for ''rich kids'' do not create a parallel culture that is actively hostile towards the mainstream society of this country. I oppose these schools because I oppose the class system that we have in this country, however it is a totally different issue and one that isn't relevent to this debate.

    On the Catholic Church, as I have said if Catholics or Protestants do this they are no better. They don't really do so in England (the Paedophillia is an irrelevent issue). In Northern Ireland, I am very much against the polarisation between Protestants and Catholics which still exists and is probably perpetuated by institutions not entirely dissimilar to the one in question. If they were doing the same thing as this school then they would be no better for being Christian in my eyes.

    In England I believe that this only occurs significantly in Muslim schools
     
  13. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Justice guaranteed

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    I feel like wanting to punch someone in the face every time I hear/read something about "[Culture/Nation/Religion X] Values".
     
  14. Arwon

    Arwon

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    You clearly know different private school kids.
     
  15. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

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    You can't compare them to the fundamental, non-integrated Muslims of this country. To do so is utterly ridiculous. It's a different issue entirely.
     
  16. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    The point is that this is a false belief. The point is there seems to be an extra leap added into logic when Islam is the topic. People don't jump to 'all Catholics are against our way of life and they should git out' when they see a bad Catholic school, but they do jump to 'all Muslims are against our way of life and they should git out'. There's a disconnect there that needs to be addressed.
     
  17. Arwon

    Arwon

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    What percentage of all Muslims in England are those? Go on, give us a numerical guess. Quantify it.
     
  18. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    But you know what? Sometimes criticism of Islam is justified, even if the person's motives are suspect. Like all religions, it has many glaring faults and pointing out that this behavior is tolerated in an Islamic school is a totally valid thing to do.

    Do I have an anti-American imperialism agenda? Yeah, I do, along with many others. Does that mean that when I post something about the Americans immolating dozens of Afghanis in an air strike then Patroklos, MobBoss and Ecofarm are justified in dismissing the thread just because I am known to not like US foreign policy? No.

    Stop trying to draw parallels with other religions in this thread, because all it comes across as is apologism. This school is a scum hole, and that's what this thread is about. I posted a thread about Irish paedophile priests and nearly got knowcked down in the rush for the usual suspects to say "well, its not just Catholics, not just Irish, laymen do it too etc etc etc". It's tissue-thin apologism.

    I think your motives are likely to counter some of the absolutely pathetic and ridiculous persecution of Muslims that goes on here, but the best way to do that isn't to try and equate every awful thing a Muslim does with something awful that's been done by a Christian, Jews, Hindu etc.
     
  19. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Did you see the post I was responding to? Of course the school's terrible, it's almost certainly one of those Wahabbist Saudi-funded messes. But to close all Muslim schools? And only Muslim Schools? Utter tosh. How about banning Saudi funding and providing money for conventional conservative and liberal Islamic alternatives?

    Fun fact: Some absurd proportion of Turks arrested in Turkey for religously-motivated terrorism was educated in Germany, because Turkey does fund and control its religious schools quite tightly, whereas Germany provides very little oversight and even less money, leaving many Turkish-German kids (whose parents just wanted a bit of religious and cultural instruction) in the hands of such Cargo Cult Islam klaptrap as the Saudi Wahabbists provide.
     
  20. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    Yeah and it was ridiculous., but I see the same thing every time anything to do with Islam is criticised: people at pains to point out that there is always some equivalent in some other religion. That's irrelevant; nor is it relevant that rapes happen everywhere on Earth when a particularly unusual and appalling one happens in Egypt. Ekolite's point is ridiculous, but maybe you should stop trying to pretend (or hint) that this is going on in every private school: it isn't and you know it isn't.
     

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