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Share Your First BNW Experiences Here

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Lorf Yimzo, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. telekinetic136

    telekinetic136 Chieftain

    Jun 24, 2012
    My first game was sweden on huge highland map with 18civs.. The start of the game was rough my land was not great(tundra lots of deer, and fur. It was a slow growth tell I hit a faith ruin and got goddess of the hunt, followed by finishing the temple of Artemis. Then my food situation turned around. Polynesia said high then 5 turns later wanted to be my friend, which was nice cause bonus to great people. Assyria fell because on the top of him was zulu's and below him was Carthage.
    Eventually I become host of the WC everyone wanted a worlds fair so I picked that one and made 8 friend's. Zulu and all his mongering got him mass denounced by every civ, so I joined the band wagon and picked up6 more friends giving me 16 friends and 160% to great people! I spent the rest of the game getting scientists and art I have never had so many great people before, it was awesome.
  2. CornPlanter

    CornPlanter Emperor

    Dec 3, 2005
    I spent a good deal of money bribing City States, went out of my way doing their quests and so on. It was mostly because I needed their bonuses, happiness especially, also I didn't want their armies sacing my trade routes and so on. Diplo victory was a side effect.

    My goal is to win, I don't care that much what kind of victory, if a better opportunity presents itself I'd change my victory plan without a second thought. The only thing accidental about it was I didn't know exact mechanics of diplo victory so it took me by surprise. Had I known I'd probably have gone for it purposefully much earlier, as soon as I had the cash to buy em all. And unlike the chess newbie in your example, I was already dominating, if not the diplo victory it would have been a matter of time till conquest, so I don't feel too bad. Did pretty well without knowing mechanics that well in my second game, I'd say.
  3. Gruminmor

    Gruminmor Chieftain

    May 16, 2011
    Played Shoshone last night, skirmish/standard size/quick/immortal. I won with science on turn 230. And tbh I shouldnt have won. AI had me out-teched by miles, seriously way ahead of me, but I think they had gone the top route for culture.

    I love the pathfinder. I had a size 6 capital by turn 15. But I have to say, I had no idea what the hell I was doing. It took me about 150 turns before I figured out how to generate tourism, and by then it was too late. Also happiness was a bit of an issue early game. Gold not so much.

    G&K and vanilla science victories were a walk in the park, with my quickest victory under 160 turns, but here I felt like I was a scrub walking around in the dark. Quite refreshing in truth, now I have to relearn this game again.

    Really like the new diplomacy, but need to figure out how to make a lasting impact for future votes. Getting the Great Games, etc last night was not possible for me, because first I had no idea what to do, and second the AI had waaaaay more production than me.

    I think I'll try Portugal next or maybe Brazil. I always enjoyed building around Golden Ages. I wonder if the infinite Golden Age is still possible?

    Good luck in your games!
  4. JustinianIV

    JustinianIV Warlord

    Jun 13, 2013
    Ah, thanks. Sounds like a fun game. Did you encounter much AI war instigation?
  5. ABPoobah

    ABPoobah Chieftain

    Mar 13, 2013
    Played most of my first game of BNW as Theodora (Byzantium) on King (big step down for me, usually play on Immortal, but holy crap was I ever overwhelmed by everything) on a Large Continents map (more on that later).

    The start felt painfully slow, though I think this is in part because my start was fairly mediocre-going on-poor and I opened Piety instead of Tradition and then went into Liberty (turned out to be a bad decision, I didn't manage to even make it to 4 cities before I started running into a bunch of AI that I didn't want to annoy too much yet). Starting out coastal on plains with very little in the way of forests to chop made for a painful start and one in which I was all the more aware of the lack of gold. I struggled a ton to get my first trade route, which I ended up making internal so I could get some free food in Constantinople and work the hills. The choice was partly influenced by my rather isolated position on a peninsula mostly out of range of other civs, at least at the start, I could have built a road over the hills to a nearby city state to get it into range, but the lack of cash all around meant I was short a worker I'd have normally cash-bought after selling off my first lux at 240.

    I managed to get the Colossus which encouraged other civs to send their sea trade routes my way and helped with my cash problems. Mid-late game everyone and their mum had a trade route going in to Constantinople, though for a while everyone stopped trading with me, probably because I'm pushing the Freedom Ideology hard and most of the civs in range went Order or Autocracy and they were all mad at me. It really sucked to be them though 'cause I pushed it as world ideology and shortly thereafter cities and then civs started flipping to me and my ideology. Once they loved me for bringing freedom to their hearts the trading started up again.

    I aggressively pushed my religion hard in the early game which I think really helped me diplomatically later on (positive diplo modifier and tourism modifiers for a civ having the same religion as you) but I noticed a few very strange things too. Despite America having had my religion for centuries, and apparently being very happy with it, they founded a pantheon and then religion (Protestantism) at a time I thought it was too late to do so (I'd already enhanced, and they didn't even have the Hagia Sophia). Also it seemed to occur a little earlier with a few other civs that were apparently happy with my religion that they would then go and found their own anyway (though not at a crazy strange late point in the game).

    Other strange things: civs picking an ideology that will automatically put them into revolution - The Inca for example just picked Autocracy when the world ideology is Freedom and all their neighbours are Freedom too. That seems like a really really stupid AI move - "hmm, let's throw myself into instant negative happiness!" - sureeee.

    Goddess of Festivals and the abundant wine around my start got me a lot of easy tourism, and my lack of spending in trees that would get me other great people for faith (Piety, Liberty, Patronage, Freedom, finally just getting Rationalism finished now) and my massive faith generation lead me to getting a bunch of holy sites around my capital for a whole ton more tourism too (which lead to more faith and to more holy sites).

    I seem to be about to win a Tourism victory but I'm also dominating in the Diplomatic circles. No one is even close to a Science victory - I only barely made it into the atomic era - which I'm not sure whether or not is an issue or not. I haven't been spamming RAs and I hit rationalism very late. On the other hand it is turn 350 and feel like I was much faster in G&K when it came to hitting the higher tiers of the tech tree and even if I wasn't then the AI was, and I don't think it's just the extra 3% per city slowing me down. I think also the extra specialist slots and general widening of focus away from pure science=victory is a big factor in that slowdown.

    Other observations:

    My play in this game has in general been so crazy unfocused that I really feel like I don't deserve to win, but the AI has been so horrible at getting anything done, and even when I was very weak I didn't have a single DoW against me. Maybe I am a skilful diplomat but I never felt much pressure to build any military units even when there were a whole bunch of wars going on elsewhere on the continent almost everyone seemed to always want to be my BFF even when I felt like they should have been murdering me due to my weakness militarily. This felt very wonky.

    I hosted the first world congress and quickly and easily dominated it from there on out. The AI seemed crazy poor at forming voting blocs or doing anything to actively block me. They all preferred to just vote for themselves every time instead.

    My map... is not a continents map. It's more like a Pangea with a couple of internal seas and a couple of archipelagos out in the sea where a bunch of the city states all got put. Only one of the ten civs in the game didn't get put on the main continent, and at one point that continent has just one tile of coast separating it from the main one.

    continents eh.jpg

    None of the other civs seemed very interested in stopping my cultural victory. Even while denouncing me, choosing a different ideology etc. they were happy to swap open borders despite my culture being much stronger than theirs (so open boarders wouldn't help them get a victory faster than me). When I was 1 civ from victory with a great musicion standing outside his boarders Washington did FINALLY tell me where to stick my open borders but it was a little late at that point.

    I had a few crashes at random times, unfortunately (including hitting F12 'cause yeah that's a bad screenshot key when you run through steam).

    Washington spammed archeologists like nobody's business at one point in the game - I counted 8 standing around in his territory. He hadn't even gone into the Exploration tree. I was highly confused.
  6. CornPlanter

    CornPlanter Emperor

    Dec 3, 2005
    In my continent, Boudica destroyed Ethiopians, Venice and DoW'ed me by the time I was about to DoW her. I took the continent with Janissary and Trebuchets. On the other continent, Ragnar, Dido, Maria Teresa and that Brazil guy were fighting all the time like mad dogs. By the time I invaded Brazil together with Dido, Brazil and Denmark was fighting Austria, also Denmark was fighting Carthage and Dido was fighting Austria too (with some periods of peace and then war again). So yeah...
  7. learner gamer

    learner gamer King

    Sep 4, 2009
    Just under 150 turns in on my first game of BNW (at king)...and I have to say that those turns have presented a tantalising glimpse of the potential I hoped would be in vanilla and then G&K. It's certainly not perfect IMHO – but, like @JtW, I'm finally beginning to sense that, with BNW, builders (like myself) and roleplayers might just have something to enjoy. I'm just hoping that I'm not yet at the top of the Chick parabola. :lol:

    The addition of trade caravans and cargo ships is a brilliant idea IMHO. Playing as Portugal, they've certainly helped me fund my expansion – and reinforced the importance of - and rewards from - defending the empire against barbs in the early game, both on land and at sea. And what's more, with the ability to shift food and hammers around locally (which I've not yet done), trade routes provide a great way of doing something that I'm sure everyone will enjoy – providing the gamer with more flexibility to play the game their way.

    All that said, I think hammers and gold – even with Portugal's enhanced trade routes - are still a little too scarce (in the early game particularly) for the real builder. And great people play has been all but ended until the mid-late game thanks to the nerf to the library. What's more of course, mechanics like maintenance on buildings and global happiness still exist to hinder building and expansion. But I'm not sure much will be done about these issues until a mod emerges with a desire to fix them.

    In all, I'd say that the initial impressions are positive – Firaxis finally seem to be at least trying to make an incarnation of Civ 5 that's much more than just a war game. It's just a shame IMHO that Jon Shafer made some very poor design choices back in vanilla that Ed Beach and the team have either had to or chosen to work with ever since.
  8. Leugi

    Leugi Supreme Libertador

    Jan 25, 2013
    Ok... Detailed write out now that I'm no longer sleepy :lol:

    8 Civs (only Zulu wasn't in, from the new ones, and France), Large Pangea Map, Prince difficulty, Abundant Resources.

    Ok, I picked the Shoshone, first because they are fairly generical and not so linked to the new mechanics, and because I like American civs. Since the beginning I tried to go to a Cultural Victory.

    First, I love the music themes for Shoshone, they are very well made, and are my second American favorite (Inca's theme is also nice), and I thought the colors would be annoying, but I managed to like them as they form a nice contrast ingame.

    Well, I went with Pottery first, as I was accustomed to, and I think that was a mistake. I had to wait till the next technology to actually get trade routes, and that made me be a bit slower with gold. However, I had good luck in trading. South of my civ I had Indonesia, and on the sides 2 city-states I could reach, so I had good options since the beginning.

    Pathfinders are simply awesome, I managed to get 2 technologies in total, and a nice faith boost, before upgrading one Pathfinder to a Composite Archer. I enjoyed pathfinders nicely. But I forgot making warriors to defend myself...

    My first trade route was a traumatic failure, as it suddenly crossed some barbarians. That felt so much like real history though, I truly hated barbarians in this game. I started gathering a mini-defense army (Pathfinder, Warrior, Archer), and after that I managed to get all of my trade-routes without plundering.

    I went to a quick Parthenon, I got a free Great Work that way, and I managed to have great early tourism. I also choose each technology following that path, I wanted to have the Writer's guild as soon as possible. And, up until the Industrial age, I was the most influential culture ingame, already influential on Indonesia too. While Brazil wasn't as huge as I thought by then.

    Now, about the other players. Poland was mad, started expanding a lot and controlled my whole side of the continent. The worst part is that I ended up helping him, as my Open Borders allowed him to conquer cities from Indonesia and some city-states. But he was friendly to me, until Renassaince. Portugal and Morocco had also an important rivalry, but Morocco got almost all of the territory there, Portugal was almost meaningless ingame. Venice had a whole corner with city-states, and a city-state barrier with Assyria, so Assyria didn't kill them or anything. Pedro was next to Poland. Indonesia didn't establish any city on another isle (luck reasons, he was in the south pole, next to the ocean, but afar from any isle)

    In the Renassaince Poland declared a war with me, and I managed to survive without losing any cities. Quite funnily, after that Poland started being a friendly lad, perhaps because he was interested in my open borders to conquer Indonesia. However, they started producing culture massively and had a lot of wonders. Poland founded the World Congress, but I was the fist one to make a proposal, so I went with Art's Funding, which ended up quite nicely.

    Ok... come Industrialization, Brazil started becoming an issue in the cultural game. Little by little my tourism output became lower than Brazil's, and Brazil was already controlling Indonesia too culturally. Also, Brazil was being far more friendly with city-states than nearly anyone, and built a Forbidden Palace, so his word in the World Congress was law. I even helped move the Congress to Brazil, because Poland was being annoying. A huge war between Morocco and Poland started, and again, I was the battlefield (I allowed this too, hoping for archaeology)

    I researched Archaeology before anyone! Managed to get a lot of artifacts, but one, that was innaccessible because it was behind the north pole, and two others that Assyria managed to get. I managed to get many theming bonuses, so I was once again, on par with Brazil. It was nice.

    Enter Ideologies, and I noticed Brazil and Poland were very far in technology (got 3 factories before anyone else, and also wonders before, so it means they managed to have a lot of technological advancement). Poland went order and Brazil went Freedom. As Poland was having too many cities and started becoming annoying, I also went Freedom, just to annoy him out. And indeed, Poland started becoming far more angry towards me little by little.

    World Projects are amazing. I didn't manage to win any of the two projects though. Poland won the World Fair, but I was second place, quite sadly that meant Poland got a huge cultural boost, making it harder to influence them. World Games has a tourism boost for the first place, so I made what I could to win that, but Morocco won (he had like 40 more hammers than I, so I could have been the winner)... Still, Morocco winning wasn't so important as he wasn't a tourism powerhouse.

    Poland decided to wipe out Indonesia, as soon as he got into Autocracy. and he did, so the only civ I managed to influence was no longer ingame. Later I managed to influenec Portugal, Venice and Assyria though, and only lacked Brazil, Morocco, and Poland. In the end, Brazil was pretty near to establish a Diplomatic victory, in World leader votes he had like 20, and needed 30. Poland had far too much culture accumulated (65000 or so), and my tourism wouldn't get him before 200 turns or something. Poland got mad too, and started a nuclear war, which I didn't survive, because I didn't have a huge army for economic problems. I lost my last city to nuclear bombs.

    So yeah, cultural game is truly hard, because you must have a stable empire, a good army and good trading, and not be a turtle in technology... But I was doing fine anyway, managed to get Brazil down in tourism, although it was pretty hard.

    At any rate, the new expansion is amazing, and really inmersive.
  9. BigChiefLizzy

    BigChiefLizzy Warlord

    Jul 17, 2007
    Playing as Poland managed to complete Tradition then Patronage... and have been gifted two Merchants of Venice so far (as Venice are not in the game). Taken over one nearby city state, and plenty more nearby - undecided as to just use the merchant on a trade mission or grab another city state. Not many luxuries I don't have, most seem to have silver.
  10. Tinker

    Tinker Prince

    Mar 15, 2013
    Had an insane game; I had by far the most tourism & culture as Morocco but my friendly neighbour Babylon had been the host forever and I saw too late that he was going to be world leader in ten turns - so on the turn the elections were i took out his last city by 2 hp.
    Turn flips over, I got his stuff, and was elected world leader. Hell yeah.
  11. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Nov 20, 2011
    I think there are genuine issues with the lack of aggression - Civ IV arguably went too far in that direction, when the driving force of the development of civilisation has always been conflict (not necessarily, but often, military in nature). More than in the previous versions of Civ V, the AIs seem to lack personality because their code them the same constraints - none of them want to go to war, whether because trade is lucrative or because they're not producing enough units.

    The latter is also a problem when it comes to aggressive players. In my experience, though the AI has started the wars, it rarely has enough forces to launch successful attacks, and never enough to defend. I'm coming up a lot against Dutch cities with no, or maybe one or two, defenders and it's just a question of smashing down the gates and moving in. War's rare, but when it happens it's not much of a challenge even with situational improvements to the AI's code.

    I'm actually seeing a lot more lapses - the AI is now taught, we are told, to have fixed formations of X ranged and Y melee before committing to an attack. So I've had situations where Dutch forces lack ranged support, so just sit outside my cities (out of range, but within range for units) until they're dead or it arrives. The AI will sit a lot of bombers in its cities and use maybe one or two per turn - one Dutch city I took had a bomber in it throughout my attack, but it was never used.
  12. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

    Nov 2, 2001
    sorry..should've read your next post
  13. Light Cleric

    Light Cleric ElCee/LC/El Cid

    Feb 5, 2011
    Loving me some Poland, that UA is awesome. You can finish a tree super quick or you can go branch off into others for some cool combinations, like getting Piety going without slowing down Collective Rule or being able to blaze through Tradition and go into Honor super early. Combo with The Oracle and it's super nuts :crazyeye:
  14. goodolarchie

    goodolarchie Warlord

    Dec 27, 2009
    Played a culture vic as France, only on King. It was not by any means easy, and I could have certainly finished quicker with anything other than a space race (came in 1911 with over 600 tourism at 75% modifiers)..

    Was kind of fun but it didn't "rescue" the post-renaissance endgame for me. After turn ~250 I was really just going through the motions to win so I could try out another game. Sadly that took another hundred grueling turns.
  15. BuddhaBubba

    BuddhaBubba Aspiring Sage

    Oct 9, 2001
    Tucson, AZ
    TL,DR: Biggest annoyance was the every 30 turns having to choose new trade routes, tourism/culture victory was ok, Venice is either way over-powered or I had it on too easy difficulty

    ... Anyway ... So I decided on my first game as Venice on Warlord difficulty. Venice because I thought the idea of a pseudo-one city challenge was cool and I liked the ability to buy things in puppeted cities that I took over with my merchants of venice. I chose Warlord difficulty because I wanted to get a feel for the game without having to worry about being bum-rushed by the AI's.

    I played continents and started on the eastern continent with Songhai, Carthage, Babylon and Arabia as my neighbors. I wanted to go for a culture victory to play-test this updated victory type. I'll give a military rundown of the game first and then write about the pluses and minuses of the new features. I puppeted two nearby city-states by the Classical/Medieval era. Songhai allied with me in a war against Babylon and it was quite easy to take over Neb's capitol and one other major city. After that I focused on culture / trade / wonders until the Renn. era. I took some of Carthage's cities including their capitol because it had some wonders in it.

    By this point I had met America, Greece and Siam on the other continent. Greece, no surprise, had taken over Siam's initial capitol and was already butting up against America. America and Siam were friendly to me so I wanted to protect them from bad-boy Greece. Greece dow'd America and I sent units into the USA to try and blockade the Greeks from successful war (wasn't quite ready to Dow them). I had to take some of Arabia's cities to reach the coast closed to Greece and then I Dow'd greece. Greece put a up a bit of a fight but I managed to take over all but one of the cities. At this point I just sat back and waited for the culture victory.

    So, for the new features:
    Trade routes - Interesting and lucrative but damn annoying by the end of the game. My favorite part about them was shipping food back to my capitol so that I could have a 50+ population by the end of the game (atomic era). Venice gets double the normal trade routes so I was raking in the cash from routes with distant civs (got the achievement for 200+ gold from trade routes). The annoying thing was the non-automation of the trade routes. Every thirty turns I had to choose a new trade route for the caravan or cargo ship. I couldn't make any changes to the route during those 30 turns. I highly recommend this be patched in some way. I think a better system would be where you would set a trade route and it would continue indefinitely until you tell it otherwise. If they were worried about abuses of switching trade routes too quickly then you could prevent that with the 30-turn thing with a message like, "Sorry, you can't change this route again until after XXXX AD/BC". Another gripe is that sending food from one city to another doesn't actually cost the source city anything, it's like the food/hammers come out of nowhere. Sorry to say, but the corporations they did in Civ IV had better mechanics.

    Culture/Tourism: This was pretty cool. It being on warlord difficulty and going with tradition allowed me to make a capitol that was a friggin' powerhouse at building wonders and birthing great people. I took policies, buildings, and wonders to up the great people rate. The differences between great artists / writers / musicians was cool (artists make golden ages, writers can make a bunch of culture, musicians can generate a bunch of tourism ... all of them can make 'great works'). The 'great works' idea is pretty cool with the diversity of art, music, etc. and how you have to have buildings / wonders to store the 'great work' in. The annoying part of 'great works' were the 'theming bounuses'. This is where you had to either have all-matching, all-different or partial-matching for a theming bonus to a facility that housed the art. For example, for the great library IIRC you had to have two great writings that were from different eras and different civs for a +4 bonus to tourism (on top of the +4 culture / tourism you already get from the having the two works). To achieve this, you have to trade with other civs (or find in archeological digs) to get works. I can see it as kind of a mini-game to "match" these works and get a bonus but when you have 20+ great works it gets tiresome. It would be nice to have an auto-arrange key for the best bonus. Or some other way of helping find the matching sets like an indicator of what you need to trade for.

    The culture victory (where my tourism conquered everyone else's culture) was kind of drawn-out but not too much different than how the culture victory in Civ IV could get. It was kind of funny seeing Washington say to me "Our people are wearing your blue jeans and listening to your pop music". But everyone else had been saying the same thing! A little variety there would have been nice.

    Anyway, this has become way too long a post and I need to go 'play-test' with another one of the new civs. I could write more about ideologies and diplomacy but I'll shave it for later.
  16. Roboe

    Roboe Chieftain

    Jun 21, 2012
    First game as Poland, got sided with Zulu as my neighbour, which meant a neverending caroussel of denouncements/tauntings, and when I finally desided to go to war, he sent forth his neverending army of Impis, and I eventually gave up and called it a day.

    So, second game, this time as Indonesia on Archipelagos. Found a second city on a ~3-4 city size island - and about 40-50 turns in and out of nowhere, the Celts have founded their second city square in the middle of the island. Once again, I quit.

    Restarted as Indonesia, got a much smaller island and will go from there.
  17. Godswood

    Godswood War Priest

    Apr 19, 2013
    Regnum Iudae
    Right, so I've just finished my second game, as Assyria. My neighbors were Morocco, Portugal, and Songhai. Me and Portugal were probably best buds until the end, probably because I've managed to spread my religion there early on (and on the last World Congress meeting, Maria actually voted for my religion to be the official world one - it passed, with our combined votes (her 29 and my 13).

    Despite that, I competed against her for the city states' favor, and she would win a diplomatic victory in some 5 turns. In those 5 turns, I would have actually finished researching the last technology one needs for the spaceship. I'd have lost, were it not for a Great Scientist which gave me a much needed boost. My ideology was Freedom (much to the chagrin of the world's communists and fascists), and I quickly bought the part and won.

    There were four civilizations on the other island: Japan, the Maya, Byzantium, and Ethiopia. They had some petty rivalry at first, but all got along, somehow, and me with them. We traded a lot. Those trade routes are insane - from nine (all sea), I've gotten like 250~ gold per turn. In the beginning and middle of the game, Songhai pestered Morocco and crippled the hell out of it, until I and Maria pretty much annihilated Songhai - the rest of the world denounced and actually declared war on Songhai anyway. Closer to the end, Portugal and Japan simply finished Songhai off and took over all of Askia's cities.

    But goddamn the games are so long now.
  18. Tinker

    Tinker Prince

    Mar 15, 2013
    I'm enjoying Venice - yoinking this kind of city-states is fun, and it makes for a relatively fast, diplomacy and trade based game. Also Great Galleases are absolutely bonkers.

    Attached Files:

  19. glider1

    glider1 Deity

    May 29, 2006
    Where animals hop not run
    The pattern I'm seeing is that BNW aggression is situational but all in all a wonderful expansion for prince-king players. But for emperor->immortal players the weak combat AI that has been concealed in the new features, raises it's ugly head. Looks like they still have not finished writing the air combat AI.

    To any emperor-immortal players out there like myself I strongly suggest that to enjoy this expansion as much as the warlord-king players, do not exploit the AI. The non-exploitation rule is to never do anything that the AI itself is not capable of doing to you.

    For example on Matdjinns diety play through he uses scouts on single tile islands to prevent the AI settling on them and making life difficult. Well to that I would say that the AI would not do that to you, so don't do it to the AI and enjoy the pain.

    Exploiting the AI weakens the game experience that is my experience so far.

  20. ptoss1

    ptoss1 King

    Jun 22, 2012
    I block cities other civs are trying to siege and they just run circles around it. Does that count? What about stealing a worker and then peacing out later on? I mean it's like 3000 bc who gives a .

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