Share your quips/anecdotes/etc about the decay of society

[Godwynn]

Here is an interesting story.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A 13-year-old Arizona girl who was strip-searched by school officials looking for ibuprofen pain reliever will have her case heard at the Supreme Court.

The justices accepted the case Friday for review. They will decide whether a campus setting gives school administrators greater discretion to control students suspected of illegal activity than police are allowed in cases involving adults in public spaces.

Arguments are expected to be heard in April.

At issue is whether school administrators are constitutionally barred from conducting searches of students investigated for possessing or dealing drugs that are banned on campus.

A federal appeals court found the search "traumatizing" and illegal.

Some parents say older children deserve the same constitutional rights as adults, but educators counter that a school setting always has been treated differently by the courts. They say a ruling against them could jeopardize campus safety.

The case involves Savana Redding, who in 2003 was an eighth-grade honor student at Safford Middle School, about 127 miles from Tucson, Arizona. Earlier that day the vice principal had discovered prescription-strength ibuprofen pills in the possession of one of Redding's classmates. That student, facing punishment, accused Redding of providing her with the 400-milligram pills.

The school has a zero-tolerance policy for all prescription and over-the-counter medication, including the ibuprofen, without prior written permission.

Redding was pulled from class by a male vice principal, Kerry Wilson, escorted to an office and confronted with the evidence. She denied the accusations.

A search of Redding's backpack found nothing. Then, although she had never had prior disciplinary problems, a strip-search was conducted with the help of a school nurse and Wilson's assistant, both females. According to court records, she was ordered to strip to her underwear and her bra was pulled out. Again, no drugs were found.

In an affidavit, Redding said, "The strip-search was the most humiliating experience I have ever had. I held my head down so that they could not see that I was about to cry."

With the help of the American Civil Liberties Union, Redding and her family sued, and a federal appeals court in San Francisco, California, ruled against the school.

The court wrote: "Common sense informs us that directing a 13-year-old girl to remove her clothes, partially revealing her breasts and pelvic area, for allegedly possessing ibuprofen ... was excessively intrusive."

The court said the school went too far in its effort to create a drug- and crime-free classroom. "The overzealousness of school administrators in efforts to protect students has the tragic impact of traumatizing those they claim to serve. And all this to find prescription-strength ibuprofen."

In its appeal to the high court, the school district said requiring a legal standard of "probable cause" to conduct student searches would cast a "roadblock to the kind of swift and effective response that is too often needed to protect the very safety of students, particularly from the threats posed by drugs and weapons."

The high court has had a mixed record over the years on students' rights. The court could now be asked to clarify the extent of student rights involving searches, and the discretion of officials over those for whom they have responsibility.

 

[Bigfoot3814]

Bigfoot, are nonnativeenglishspeaking students in your school district allowed to graduate without passing their English credits?

I don't know, but I do know that there were two kids assigned to my 11th grade literature class who could not read or speak any English. I mean no words at all. There was really no way for them to participate in class or do any of the work so they just stopped coming. The teacher was a bit of blathermouth so he took it upon himself to tell the class that they had been there as part of some mandatory immersion policy at the school.

So really, a story like Pedro's would not surprise me.

 

[Miles Teg]

Scenario:
Amy wants to play football.
1958 - Amy gets a lecture by the principal, is socially ostracized at school, and has lessons in 'femininity' shoved down her throat by her mother.
2008 - The principal hands her a signup sheet for the girl's football team. If the school is to small to have one, her mother applies some pressure on the school to let he play on the boy's team.

Scenario:
Johnny writes out his report with his left hand.
1958 - Johnny's teacher straps his dominant hand, Johnny's grades slip and due to the difficulty of writing. Johnny finds writing his own name difficult.
2008 - Teacher spends a few minutes teaching him how to write backward. Johnny develops a bit of a flair for short stories.

Scenario:
Jimmy, a black kid, drinks out of the water fountain for white people on a dare.
1958 - Jimmy get's his head knocked against the concrete, one of the bystanders mentions the 'uppity negro' to his two sons, who take that as an excuse to go bully him. Jimmy looses a tooth, and gives both of them blackeyes, Jimmy finds himself dancing the hemp fandango the next night.
2008 - White persons water fountain?

Scenario:
Jack never develops an attraction to the fairer sex, and prefers his own gender
1958 - He never really came out of the closet, but Jack goes through high school lonely and depressed, fighting constant putdowns and occasional beatdowns by his classmates before going to college. One day he goes to a seedy bar to drown his sorrows, and hooks up with another guy. the guy leads him out into the parking lot, where Jack is beaten to death with a tire iron.
2008 - Jack comes out of the closet at fifteen, gets teased and bullied allot in high school, then moves to San Francisco where he lives quite nicely as an accountant.

Scenario:
Nate's father is an abusive alcoholic
1958 - After years of abuse, Nate's mother gets a divorce, but no one will hire her. Nate is an outcast at school, and never learns how to cope with what he grew up with. Eventually he follows in his father's footsteps.
2008 - Nate's mother calls the cops. She goes to work as a clerk the next day. The next couple of years are messy and unpleasant, but Nate retains most of his friends. Nate gets some therapy and lives a successful life as head of a plumbing industry.

 

[Mise]

Things were better when we didn't have it so good

 

[Mowque]

yeah, beating kids is bad....

 

[Mirc]

Since this is all so completely hypothetical and thus unarguable, I won't take the time to break it all down. It's obviously also extremely US centric... Here in 1958 we were under communism and a little thing called "freedom" was not exactly around.

But something struck me as odd:

[FONT=&quot]Scenario:
Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1958 - Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2008 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers. [/FONT]

Hey, I completely agree with that! There's no way I will agree with the idea of someone bringing ANY KIND OF GUNS to a school! Hell yeah he deserves jail for that!

 

[Phlegmak]

Here in 1958 we were under communism and a little thing called "freedom" was not exactly around.

But according to the Commie fanboys, you never had it so good except when under Commie-nism.

 

[Shekwan]

Um well 20% of my country was unempoyed in 1987, the Catholic Church still had a firm grip on public services as well as causing widespread child abuse, the average income was $9000 a year, a domestic terrorist campaign was in full swing less than 100km from my hometown, and record numbers were emigrating. Divorce and homosexuality were illegal. I really don't see much to be nostalgic about.

And just to boot we had a Taoiseach (PM) who defined the term corruption.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Hey, I completely agree with that! There's no way I will agree with the idea of someone bringing ANY KIND OF GUNS to a school! Hell yeah he deserves jail for that!

The fact is Mirc that years ago it wasn't uncommon for rural high schoolers to have their shotguns and rifles at school during the hunting season. Back then there was no such thing as school shootings and since then there has been a zero-tolerance federal law in place against having guns on school property. But how many school shootings have been prevented by that law? None probably. And it isn't even just about having the gun on school property anymore. I was reprimanded in school just for TALKING about guns. Idiots.

 

[Mowque]

But how many school shootings have been prevented by that law? None probably.

And you know this how? And how many accidents MIGHT it have stopped? I'm not grinding a axe, just thought i'd bring it up...

 

[Bugfatty300]

And you know this how?

Obviously I can't prove a something like that but logically if anyone wants to shoot up a school then they're going to do it regardless if it's against the law to have a gun on school property. I'm not saying students should be allowed to have guns at school. Districts should dictate the rules by a case by case basis instead of through idiotic federal zero-tolerance laws. What works for an NYC inner city school might not apply to my school for instance.

 

[general_kill]

Oooo I got one.

Scenario: A group young black students try to attend a local high school.

1958: Mobs appear to block them, harass them and threaten their lives. State governor calls up the national guard to keep the blacks out of the school. POTUS sends in heavily armed troops to protect the students.
2008: They walk in the school like everyone else.

It's so easy to romanticize the past and ignore all its problems. May I add that in 1958, there is not internet? Think about that before you go clamoring about the 50's!

 

[amadeus]

Hey, I completely agree with that! There's no way I will agree with the idea of someone bringing ANY KIND OF GUNS to a school! Hell yeah he deserves jail for that!

See, most of those kids in the rural areas, they grew up around guns and learned how to use them. They understand that a gun is not a toy.

As opposed to the gun control acolytes like Dianne Feinstein.

Now, I don't even own a gun or have handled guns, but I sure as hell know that you don't put your finger on the trigger of an AK-47 unless you plan to obliterate the object that is in front of its barrel... much less one with a barrel drum.

By the way, Feinstein is one of the few people in San Francisco permitted to carry a concealed weapon. Ironic, isn't it?

 

[Godwynn]

By the way, Feinstein is one of the few people in San Francisco permitted to carry a concealed weapon. Ironic, isn't it?

Chuck Schumer as well.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Chuck Schumer as well.

Chuck packs a Tec-9.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Now, I don't even own a gun or have handled guns, but I sure as hell know that you don't put your finger on the trigger of an AK-47 unless you plan to obliterate the object that is in front of its barrel... much less one with a barrel drum.

You think an AK is bad? Wait until you hear about the Shoulder-Thing-That-Goes-Up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ospNRk2uM3U

 

[Miles Teg]

Half the problem of course, is people trying to apply an urban attitude to guns out in the country, and vice versa. No tolerance laws make sense on the mean streets of New York City, where the only kind of 'hunting' you do will get you 20 to life. Out in Sticksville, WV it's a whole 'nother story of course. Taking a rural attitude to guns into the city is going to get people shot, and taking an urban attitude into the country will probably put a few good kids into juvie. Both approaches make sense, in the right environment. Of course, somethings are more universal. For example, the kid that takes a pistol into Sticksville High is probably just as ill-intentioned as a kid doing the the same thing in the big city.

You think an AK is bad? Wait until you hear about the Shoulder-Thing-That-Goes-Up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ospNRk2uM3U

Absolutely pathetic showing on her part, but she has a point. Outlawing cosmetic features associated with weapons favored by gangs is a legitimate option.

 

[Arwon]

I don't know, but I do know that there were two kids assigned to my 11th grade literature class who could not read or speak any English. I mean no words at all. There was really no way for them to participate in class or do any of the work so they just stopped coming. The teacher was a bit of blathermouth so he took it upon himself to tell the class that they had been there as part of some mandatory immersion policy at the school.

So really, a story like Pedro's would not surprise me.

So that's condition 1 of what, 6 different things talked about in the OP? If you think that the part I'm saying is unrealistic is "poor English skills exist in some students" then maybe your own English skills need some work?

For those playing along at home, this is what the reactionary douche who wrote the dodgy email-forward in the OP claimed would happen in the event that some kid couldn't speak fluent English at high school:

Pedro's cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

[FONT=&quot]Scenario:
Black child wants to go to good "white only" school, not bad "colored only" one
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1958 - After a couple people protest, police come with dogs and fire hoses. Group called communists and are harassed by local racists for the rest of their lives.
2008 - There are none so black child is able to get good education
[/FONT]

It goes both ways.

 

[Bigfoot3814]

So that's condition 1 of what, 6 different things talked about in the OP? If you think that the part I'm saying is unrealistic is "poor English skills exist in some students" then maybe your own English skills need some work?

That wasn't even half the point. The point was they were put into a class where students have to read and interpret Shakespeare before they even knew basic English just because of policy that was all about "including people" and stuff like that. They're doing the same thing to kids with learning disabilities.

I'm not saying this is something that happens every day, but I said it's possible and that I wouldn't be surprised if it happened. I mean, look at what happened with Reed Hastings in 2005.

In 2005 Hastings ran into trouble on the State Board of Education when Democratic legislators challenged Hastings’ advocacy of more English instruction and language testing for non-English-speaking students.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_Hastings#California_State_Board_of_Education

Also, I'm not a doctor but I think this list was meant to be at least a little bit satirical.