Shoshone Deity Huge Empire Challenge Series!

Looking forward to Assyria getting Siege Towers and crushing Germany and Indonesia (or Netherlands!) :) Ashurbanipal would love Solomon's Mines. Smash the foes!
 
Looking forward to Assyria getting Siege Towers and crushing Germany and Indonesia (or Netherlands!) :) Ashurbanipal would love Solomon's Mines. Smash the foes!

It's coming! Just gotta get the infrastructure up. I haven't chosen the target but whoever is willing to fight with me will probably be last. It's gonna be dependent on relations in the continent. I am very much looking forward to utilizing Assyrian siege towers. It's been a while and my last Assyrian game started me on Archipelago so this should be much better! ;)

Enjoy Part 25 of Shoshone Empires! We drill for new sources of oil, produce our first industrial military units, and deal with our second bout of ideological unrest! The Venetian skirmishing continues, mostly posturing while we wait for the backup.

Part 25: Modernization
 
Assyria is great. After always using pea shooters (archers) or suffering through catapults and trebuchets, the meaty chunks of city health that towers take off is great. It also saves you from the embarassing situation of not being able to capture a city because the AI is smart enough to kill your melee units first.

Don't forget you can get free techs by capturing city states.
 
Thank you for the series! Enjoyed watching this.

Couple of questions:
1. Why not range promotion for the crossbowman? In my games this is most important one since you can safely attack the cities and get logistics then later faster since every turn you will be shooting things, no need for a bait.
2. Why not getting dynamite and finish all you war affairs with just two artilleries? I know you will be delaying science, but solving war problems may benefit in the long run, considering wasting gold on standing army.
3. It seems I lost track about recent wars between AIs, but one of the strategies are to set on AI's on each other so they dump resources on war efforts. Are you planning to get some diplomacy and make AI's hate and war each other? I know tuns are long, but not sure if it is something which can be ignored. Especially when they have ideological pressure on each other.
4. I think you can also trade your votes in congress for money. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Thanks again for entertaining series.
 
My Q: why not bulb your scientist? Is he really better off blocking missionaries?

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Part 6 of 4-Strategy Deity Showdown is out! Start with a bit of a recap of the series so far where I talk about my successes and mistakes so far in hindsight. All civs focus in hard on expansion in this episode in an effort to claim early settling spots.

Part 6: Expansion Time!

thanks for the questions guys!

1. Range promotion is for sure the most useful but having range on only one crossbow is not enough damage to start to whittle down Venice's health in the industrial age with his Castle. Logistics, even though it doesn't have range is double the experience so you can get to range faster choosing it if you know the AI will keep sending units at you to mow down. So if they are holed up in a city range is slightly more xp. If they keep sending units to kill logistics is more xp. My goal is both so I picked the one that was most useful at the time and got the most xp. In general, if you don't desperately need the range right at the moment and it is critical to taking a city you always take logistics because it gives you double the rate of experience and you'll have range after only a little while, logistics/range is enough to take down a walled city with only a single unit eventually, but as I said, since I'm upgrading them to gatlings since crossbows are too fragile and I don't want to accidentally lose them, that era is over anyway and logistics is more valuable for the double attacks imo. Probably an opinion choice but since one ranged crossbow wouldn't be enough to take down Venice anyway I went with the upgrade+logistics.

2. I agree, artillery is the next tech I beeline. Since my stated goal is to win science I cannot delay research labs, which are the last big science boost for the empire. The sooner I get that and make them before the AI the sooner I finally pass them in science. Research labs are a far bigger boost then growing. Right after I get them we'll go for artillery and I'll finish Venice. I originally had hope some clever work with roads and cannons would do it but he's too well defended--you'll see next part. I'd lose about 1/3 of my force in sacrifices to pull it off because he has several crossbows set up behind the city plus frigates. We'll upgrade those cannons and take him down after probably. Since I'm liberty my army costs me if it is in or out of cities so ending the war, unless I get tribute, doesn't have a benefit other then avoiding negative diplo and I don't plan to disband because I'll need them in wars to come.

3. Yes starting wars to distract AI is pretty standard. I do this less then other players because I don't mind fighting to wars and don't have a lot to spare at the moment, but also because the AI are still choosing ideologies. Once the last guys pick a side I'll know who my friends are and I can think about encouraging wars that don't hurt my new friends. Because the other order civs are my main ideological protection it's important I not start wars that kill them on accident and Mongolia and Ethiopia and Spain all have yet to choose a side. Waiting and holding my breath at the moment. One thing I know from reading diplo recently, the entire world has denounced the Ottomans, I'll do the same soon and I don't doubt they'll start wars with him on their own soon even without my help. Also Mongolia and America both dislike Persia who is Freedom and influential on me so encouraging that war could be good.

4. Oh yeah I think you can, I always forget this and have never done it. Good reminder! ;)

5. Choral, you want to bulb your scientist when your science rate levels, then he gives the maximum amount of use. If I use him now when my science is increasing every turn I shave off less turns then I will later. So from an absolute use standpoint they are best used at the end of the game together to rush through the atomic and info eras and quickly get to spaceship part techs. I am saving them and will demonstrate this strategy if you have not yet seen it. Some say you also get an equivalent benefit for claiming a science tech like plastics earlier. I thought about it but decided against it since I didn't have the money to quickly buy RL anyway and my main cities still had plenty of things I wanted to build. If I had done it I would have needed to stop building military and delay hospital and I'm growing pretty slowly in the core now. :)
 
Finally caught up :)

I saw that you did find a luxury trade where they apparently only had a single copy - when I made the suggestion I was referring to the specific situation where a trade had just ended and they seemed to now only have a single copy i.e. when you expect they should have two. It's a bit much work to check in other circumstances, but I'm glad it worked out for you.

It's worth noting that something similar applies the other way. If you get a lux from a CS ally and already have a copy yourself, the trade window only shows you as having one, because it shows what you can trade, not what you have in total. If the alliance is pretty secure, you can trade your own copy away without cost.

From a couple of things you said in commentary, I got the impression that you forgot that you can trade open borders in each direction separately. If you want to explore without giving OB you can do so for 2gpt (or 50g I think). Also useful for managing tourism/ideology pressure.

I'm picking up loads of tips from this series so thanks for your insights.

BTW, I saw what you said about commenting on youtube but I prefer to post here for personal reasons.
 
Yeah I feel like I've managed luxuries poorly this game. I sold a lot of them early and it was nice back when they had nothing to trade but now I'm having to buy a few of the AI's because they became available halfway through existing trades. I usually sell anything I can't trade but the AI do charge you more to buy (9 gpt) so it can be a loss. If I had a bit more time, as in a single-player game to check the deal history more often I'd usually stop selling the closest one and transition over to lux for lux but I keep forgetting here. ;) As for open borders, I'll keep in mind I can buy them, in a cultural game I'd be purchasing them from everyone I knew but I'm content to only buy it when I really need it here since this game I won't have much tourism.

That's fine, I'll keep checking here as well, glad you are enjoying!

Part 26! This one is especially long because I forgot to stop my recording. Sorry, 50 minutes is a bit much I'll try to fix this overplaying problem haha. Lots of stuff going on in this one, we build/upgrade some industrial military, we worker-bait the Venetians who fall for it frequently, and we start making landmarks and friending cultural CS again to improve our culture rate, all on the way to research labs. It's becoming clear that I'll need a tech advantage to take Venice. Their garrison firepower is too strong. I think from what I've seen they have multiple crossbowmen and ships set up behind the city as well. I'll make a push next episode to scout it out but if it looks like I'll lose 1/3 of my force in the taking I may just wait for artillery which will be here in 20 turns. I'm in no hurry, and more taking the city on principle. :)

Part 26: Silly Venetians
 
Part 7 of 4-Strategy Deity Showdown! 2nd and 3rd cities all going down in this installment as the race for city spots commences! Mayans are starting to do a little better and finally settle but still playing from behind, Iroquois block Egyptian settlers to claim a contested spot, Assyrians rake in culture from multiple sources and work to settle their 3rd city, and Netherlands are about to complete their 3rd city and be the first to work on the NC-rush.

Part 7: City Spammin!
 
Our long-time friend ethiopia picks our ideology nicely canceling the pressure from other civs! Venice puts out more damage then we realized so we do some worker prep with roads. Even with we may lose a lot of units in this push, considering just waiting 15 turns for artillery which aren't far off. What do you guys think? I don't really fancy losing any of my near-logistics gatlings or blitz lancers. :/ Alternatively I could make bait pikemen and just lose one every turn in sacrifice for 5 turns lol. ;)

Part 27: Order Ethiopia
 
Woohoo! Spending some time in airports today so this is perfect! Happy 4th of!

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the 4-Strategy game is fun and endlessly entertaining for me, but one flaw is that managing 4 players, unless some of them get wiped out relatively soon, will mean a lot fewer turns are accomplished each episode as the empires grow. I don't know if you guys care but if I was a viewer I'd want the series to accelerate a bit so that I had more new things to look forward too.

what do you guys think? Is it fine as is and are you enjoying it or should I speed it along? I can do this through several editing techniques. I can start skipping a couple turns between each episode with a quick recap, I can jump-cut over boring rounds where its just management after explaining what I'm about to do, or, if you guys don't want this and want to see every detail, I can create more episodes each week so we keep a better rate later when it starts to slow down. Does anyone care or have an idea? I'm just thinking of ways to keep it engaging. Hope you are enjoying! :)
 
I like the idea of more episodes! Any editing is going to add a ton of work on your end. Ideally, you'd edit out anything boring and give a summary of what we missed, but that's a lot of post-production! Just keep doing what you're doing. Keep it fun for yourself! We can always skip ahead.

On the other series though, geez we've been waiting for Venice to fall for a long time. Could you move that along please?! ;) jk

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I *have* thought that you could do your commentary in post rather than live, running the playback at 2x or 3x. We'd probably get the benefit of better analysis due to hindsight and more interesting commentary given you wouldn't have to focus on playing while commentating, but again, it'd be a ridiculous amount of work. We'd also lose the fun of when something unexpected happens live and you react to it. On the other hand, your play would probably be even sharper (though I wouldn't notice... well except when you trade a strat for a flat 2gold. :D ) I imagine it's hard playing well focusing on your commentary while also playing four civs concurrently! You do a great job. Also impressed how you never rage out an f-bomb. :D
 
hmmm thanks, yeah I'll keep those tips in mind! More then one video a day at this point (and I do about 6 a week right now) would increase the time commitment considerably, but given that I already play other civ games on the side because I get impatient with how long it takes to record and play, I probably have the time. :D Some editing techniques like jump cuts over end-turns are easy to do though.

Next part of Shoshone Empires, and you're not going to like this choral: I decide to stop the Venetian assault after a quick test of the defenses reveals I'll have to sacrifice about half my force to take it without artillery. But luckily these are only about 12 turns away. Also, as I explain there is some prep I need to do to prepare for incorporating a big city and to ensure I don't burn half the works.

Some highlights: Most of the remaining civs pick order in rapid succession, looks like this game will be a simple coast to victory! Please tell me about your thoughts on jump-cutting the end-turns. They are taking close to 2 minutes to transition now with recording (worst I've ever seen) meaning even playing fast I can't accomplish as much. cutting them out I could probably add several extra turns per episode.

Part 28: World Order
 
If the end turns are getting that bad then I guess cutting them makes sense. More turns = more goodness :)

I'm still coming to grips with the tourism/pressure game, but this seems to be a situation where a bit of tourism won't help you much. If you manage to get exotic with a few civs you are just as likely (or more likely) to lose pressure from order civs as from those in other ideologies. It would be different if your ideology where in the minority. So, do you want the great works mainly for the culture boost?
 
Yeah your understanding is correct. I would want them mainly for the culture now, the tourism does very little for me, however, if the weaker order civs fall to revolutions it is still a nice fallback to generate your own ideological protection with exotic influence, I'll probably still try to gradually grow my influence because I'm still far under 10%. Ideally I'll just keep it near just in case. On another note, taking Venice actually has very few upsides for me other then theming now. They've been a game-long enemy, viewers want them taken over, and it would further expand my empire which is the point of the series. However, the diplo penalty for wiping him out is going to be rough. It might trigger the next war for us, we'll see. Also we'll have like 14 turns of resistance meaning we'll have a hefty happiness penalty for a while and the city will do nothing for us for a long time. Downsides of capturing large cities. It'll be tight.

I chose to ignore early tourism in favor of saving writers for more culture for policies. It paid off because every writer has given me over 1000 culture which would've taken 500 turns in work culture. The downside is without the culture in cities your borders expand slower (but I'm shoshone so this doesn't matter), and that I will not have exotic level influence by the time the AI picks ideologies. It leaves me vulnerable to ideological pressure. It was a bit of a gamble because I assumed the AI would still prefer order as they often do.

As it turns out the world is actually pretty evenly split over ideologies despite my last title. Yes, there are 5 civs now that have chosen order as opposed to 2 freedom, 2 autocracy. I'll emphasize this next episode, but among the influential civs with a lot of tourism we have a 2v2v2 split. The only reason I'm happy is I gave open borders to indonesia as soon as he chose order and he's now familiar over me. Mongols will get there in maybe 15-20 turns now that I've sent them a trade route and we got open borders but they have pretty bad tourism and my late-game culture growth is slowing this. Actually many of my order allies are unhappy because of the strong influence of other civs. Things could still go to hell yet! :) I underestimated just how much tourism these big empires would output after archaeology. It's quite insane.

4 Strategy Showdown Part 9 is out!
 
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