Should Charlie fire his specialists?

[Thrasybulos]

Regarding NTT + Iso : that's probably because I'm too slow, but usually when I rush Astro:

• I get few to no ressource trades : the AIs are already trading nearly all their extra ressources among themselves.
• I get little benefit from trade routes: the AIs tend to switch into Mercantilism 10-15 turns after I make contact.
• Since I haven't accumulated open borders and trade diplo bonuses, but am running a different religion, diplo turns sour pretty fast.

So I got into the habit of not rushing Astro: I make contact when I have an army ready to invade, not before.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

@Thrasybulos

Ans1: There should be at least one unique resource.

Ans2: Reach astronomy as soon as possible. Maximise the number of turns before mercantilism. That's why I don't like The Great Lighthouse in isolation. I think it delays astronomy.

Ans3: Gift 10 gold or a small technology to open borders. Don't worry about diplomacy until you're ready to declare war.

 

[Thrasybulos]

Ans1: There should be at least one unique resource.

I know, I have ressources to trade. But the AIs don't, because they're trading between themselves all (or nearly all) their extra ressources.

Ans3: Gift 10 gold or a small technology to open borders. Don't worry about diplomacy until you're ready to declare war.

I know about the small gift trick, but it's only a very temporary boost in relations. And the malus for different religion tends to make the small, slow-building bonus for open borders irrelevant.

Now, obviously, every game is different.
If the AIs have been warring a lot, there'll be trades available, and they'll hate each other enough that you being a religious pariah won't matter that much.

I also ironically try to get Optics pretty soon: while it doesn't matter for tech trades, it allows for ealy exploration. Finding a coupla islands with extra ressources would make me change my plans and set a higher priority to getting to Astronomy earlier.

 

[Izuul]

Yall are making me want to take a stab at this.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Maybe an old map of mine is suitable for specialist economy.

 

[sampsa]

I know, I have ressources to trade. But the AIs don't, because they're trading between themselves all (or nearly all) their extra ressources.

This was definitely not true in my game. I got plenty of happies and health via resource trade. The sooner you get them the better.

Regarding NTT + Iso : that's probably because I'm too slow, but usually when I rush Astro:

• I get few to no ressource trades : the AIs are already trading nearly all their extra ressources among themselves.
• I get little benefit from trade routes: the AIs tend to switch into Mercantilism 10-15 turns after I make contact.
• Since I haven't accumulated open borders and trade diplo bonuses, but am running a different religion, diplo turns sour pretty fast.

So I got into the habit of not rushing Astro: I make contact when I have an army ready to invade, not before.

Well, not all AI will be in mercantilism, some might (in my game +1200AD only Mehmed was in merc I think). Also, if you actually get astro fast you will be there before they have banking. Gift some to get the trades and OB.

I also ironically try to get Optics pretty soon: while it doesn't matter for tech trades, it allows for ealy exploration. Finding a coupla islands with extra ressources would make me change my plans and set a higher priority to getting to Astronomy earlier.

Astro trade routes are a massive upgrade to domestic trade routes. Exploration is not important at all for me. In general I'm not looking to settle distant islands - it doesn't help to win the game really. War will win the game.

 

[Thrasybulos]

Well, as I said, the root problem in my case is certainly that when I try to get to Astronomy ASAP... that's still not soon enough.

 

[sampsa]

So your solution is coming up with a completely different strategy to fix the issue. That is not how you improve your game, that is how you make it very difficult to improve. Find out what is causing the issue and work on it.

 

[Thrasybulos]

So your solution is coming up with a completely different strategy to fix the issue.

Well, yeah, because that happens to be fun.

But more to the point, I'm simply noting that my experience at the time differs from what've seen others reporting since.
At first, I simply attributed it to the difference between NTT and standard play. Now, with hindsight, I attribute it to my being too slow to Astro.
But could also have been me over-reacting to a couple of games where I got unlucky with the diplo / trading situation and over-generalizing from there...

 

[Thrasybulos]

Maybe an old map of mine is suitable for specialist economy.

Interesting map... Would certainly be on the tough side for me.

Spoiler :

That probably wouldn't fit what *I* mean by "Specialist Economy", which was my go-to solution for food-rich, commerce-poor maps.
This one is essentially both food-poor and commerce-poor!

That said, I believe I see what you mean?
The best use of the few high-food tiles here might be to try and get as many bulbs as possible?
Plus Marble for GLib/Parthenon?

 

[Izuul]

The biggest issue on this one is just the lack of happiness resources. If you're not playing a CHA leader, the difference between zero and 1 or 2 happiness resources is huge. The sugars don't really count here so the options are staying on size 4 cities (not great) or making a major detour to Monarchy and then spending a bunch of hammers and gold on warriors. If there were 2 calendar resources here it might be viable to go Math > Calendar instead of Monarchy. I don't think that messes up any bulbs since you need Calendar to bulb Astro anyway, and you can't trade for Math and Calendar here like in a normal ISO game. Alas, we only had the sugars.

 

[sampsa]

Yeah, I would think monarchy is the best play but it's a pain to pay for unit upkeep. Especially under paci.