Should Civfantatics continue to remain neutral ?

[dexters]

To be fair to the 'we should do something' sentiment, CFC as a community is owed at least some sort of an interview, where fan questions can be posed to the developers directly. Too often, Q&A in the general press ask softball questions or ask questions in ways, fans wouldn't ask.

This Q&A would be something all of us can contribute a question or two for and feel like we have a shot at airing our concerns directly to the people in charge. I'd love the mods and admins to handle a Q&A like that.

But I suspect Firaxis is lying low right now. But it doesn't hurt to try.

 

[r_rolo1]

Well, it would not be the first time that Firaxians would do open talks ( both on Polycast and on mirc ) with the fan base. I think that it would actually be a good idea for Firaxis to do so now, even if to calm things down a little.

 

[Drakarska]

To be fair to the 'we should do something' sentiment, CFC as a community is owed at least some sort of an interview, where fan questions can be posed to the developers directly. Too often, Q&A in the general press ask softball questions or ask questions in ways, fans wouldn't ask.

This Q&A would be something all of us can contribute a question or two for and feel like we have a shot at airing our concerns directly to the people in charge. I'd love the mods and admins to handle a Q&A like that.

But I suspect Firaxis is lying low right now. But it doesn't hurt to try.

That is something I would greatly be interested in viewing.

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

This forum isn't made to be where people seek out a neutral position on anything.

 

[mediobogdum]

I feel that most productive thing a fan of the game could do right now is to
promote a change in the people and culture surrounding the game.

I'm of the opinion that the only way to do this would be to use the position this website as as the largest fan community to publicly shame them into change. At the very least it would promote dialog which is non existant atm.

One cannot ever shame a corporation into anything, if this were true we would live in a completely different world. Seriously, you can't believe that Firaxis is in any other business than all the rest - making money. They are not trying to make you happy, or build a community, or anything other than maintain maximum shareholder value.

If you want to affect the way a corporation does things you haven't many options unless you can buy some stock or organize a boycott or something, "shaming" them is so naive it's almost chimeric.

 

[ShuShu62]

Perhaps we should first fight it out in a civil war?

And, as some of these folks are saying, the nature of fanbase forums is that it would be a very uncivil war.

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

One cannot ever shame a corporation into anything, if this were true we would live in a completely different world. Seriously, you can't believe that Firaxis is in any other business than all the rest - making money. They are not trying to make you happy, or build a community, or anything other than maintain maximum shareholder value.

If you want to affect the way a corporation does things you haven't many options unless you can buy some stock or organize a boycott or something, "shaming" them is so naive it's almost chimeric.

I think you got it entirely wrong there. I would say that the people in Firaxis are a company that want to make the best game possible, in order to not only feel the satifaction of creating a great game, but to as well boost their careesr where they can find better opportunities to showcase their talents; however, it will not be the case where they are restricted to do so by the very fact that 2K won't allow that to happen due to their lack luster financial support in doing so.

 

[da_Vinci]

And, as some of these folks are saying, the nature of fanbase forums is that it would be a very uncivil war.

Or at least, in some cases, uncivil discourse ...

Of course, if you really want to see the breakdown of civility, go read the 2K Civ 5 forum. I think fire departments hold training there ...

given the amount of flaming that goes on there

dV

 

[Soro]

I don't understand the question. Some people like the game, some not. It's a normal thing and an entire community-driven site taking a stand seems ridiculous.

As noted.

The fact that I don't think the game is at 1.0 yet, and is lacking in in-depth gameplay, doesn't mean the site should take a stand alongside me. And if I liked the game a great deal, I still wouldn't think the site should take up arms with me. For that matter, I don't think the matter is worth taking up arms over.

If you bought the game thinking it was finished, I can understand your anger, but you could always return it and wait to see what happens in 6-12 months' of development. If you love it, fine and good. Looking for stuff to get excited over? Step outside the bubble. There's a whole turbulent world out there, and it's fascinating to take part in.

 

[d,,p]

I think you got it entirely wrong there. I would say that the people in Firaxis are a company that want to make the best game possible, in order to not only feel the satifaction of creating a great game, but to as well boost their careesr where they can find better opportunities to showcase their talents; however, it will not be the case where they are restricted to do so by the very fact that 2K won't allow that to happen due to their lack luster financial support in doing so.

It would be nice if you could clarify what exactly you are talking about:

1. They promised fast patches -> checked
2. They did promise mod tools and world builder -> checked
3. They did not promise free DLC -> but anyway checked


What exactly is 2K not allow to happen?

 

[andrewlt]

I would have agreed with your posting but the last sentence forbids to do so.

I don't agree with Evrett's attitude and way of articulating it, but what you're asking for is just censorship, effectively putting you into the same boat as him. Well, maybe not the same boat, but a very similar one.

Censorship is not inherently bad. Even in societies with free speech, there are restrictions on what you can or cannot say (death threats, for example, which this guy is coming close to). This dude has already implied violence against the developers on multiple occasions.

Adding to a petition to ban 2K Elizabeth from the forums, accusing Firaxis of non-existent hate speech, he's also advocated harassing and shaming the CFC members who participated in Civ 5's beta test because of the state of the current game.

 

[The_J]

An e-riot? Let's not.

The deserved negative vibe is clear on this forum, and sufficient in terms of forum language. If people don't like it, the wallets speak more loudly.

Personally: With official support it could get even louder. The maximum of noise is not yet reached.

Officially: Please not, there's enough trollbait around.

I wish reviewers did not lie or deliberately mislead people about this game however.

at the moment i'm wondering what Azallel wrote.

 

[kayapo]

I don't understand the question. Some people like the game, some not. It's a normal thing and an entire community-driven site taking a stand seems ridiculous.

+1

I really don't understand the OP question.

The minute something like he is suggesting happens these will no longer be forums and will became a blog.

 

[SuperJay]

The minute something like he is suggesting happens these will no longer be forums and will became a blog.

I think that's the problem - OP wants the CFC to be his own personal soapbox, when he'd really be much better off (as someone else mentioned) starting a blog or site himself where he can rally the masses to revolution.

I haven't checked, but I bet http://www.firaxismustburn.org is available!

 

[zarakand]

I feel that civ 5, while possessing worthwhile traits, has serious flaws.

I feel that many of these flaws are products of the individuals involved in the management, development, and testing of the game.

I feel that most productive thing a fan of the game could do right now is to
promote a change in the people and culture surrounding the game.

I'm of the opinion that the only way to do this would be to use the position this website as as the largest fan community to publicly shame them into change. At the very least it would promote dialog which is non existant atm.

Vote yes to be a proactive fan of civ instead of the do-nothing disorganized whining that is going on now

I think this is crazy. It's a game and this site gets visited by fans. If it becomes anything other than "We love Civ games!" then it becomes a fractured placed. In any case, if this was a serious suggestion from somone esle it might be worth discussing, but your previous postings have been like Fox News or MSNBC...way over the top.

 

[skallben]

We are playing, discussing, modding and criticizing all the time. Look at the patch, how many of the changes have not beeen extensively discussed pre-patch here on CFC? Modded even? The Mongols release even mentioned the fanatics as not to be messed with. We are not exactly idle. For a game community, I think the level of the discussions and activity on CFC is on a high level.

For instance, posting things like Sullla's writeup on his games on the front sends a message. Personally I see CFC more as a filling a journalists intented role in society, we investigate, write on, discuss and criticize the games flaws and strengths.

I think Firaxis history has shown they do listen to the fans, and I believe they want us on their train because they know they are nothing without us. They can never take apart and produce variants of the game in the same extent as the whole CFC modding society does. But they can have an open dialog with us and refine the core game.

I think the constructive entry point here should be why this patch was needed to start with. Many of the flaws on release days should not have been there IMO. Maybe Firaxis should have been even more transparent on how the game was being developed? Maybe they should have asked more of us to beta-test?

But no, we should not allow CFC to act as a political tool and "enforce" Firaxis. Were I Firaxis, I'd give the finger in that case and start making other games. I can't honestly believe they want to screw us over in any way, I rather believe it to be they have economics and a publisher to set frames for thier plans.

 

[MadRat]

You go on ahead, I will get the molotovs, tovarisch. See you on the eve of revolution!

da svadanya CiV lol

Honestly, keep the neutrality - not everyone has the same feeling about CiV 5 and thus no single position is a consenus. I dont want CFC to become a hate site anymore than I want to see it be a rabid fanboi/gal site.

Rat

 

[kayapo]

You go on ahead, I will get the molotovs, tovarisch. See you on the eve of revolution!

Well, today is the 25th of October. Gregorian Calender or not, it is October! We are already 2 days late. Though technically we have till the 5th of November.

 

[SuperJay]

We are playing, discussing, modding and criticizing all the time. Look at the patch, how many of the changes have not beeen extensively discussed pre-patch here on CFC? Modded even? The Mongols release even mentioned the fanatics as not to be messed with. We are not exactly idle. For a game community, I think the level of the discussions and activity on CFC is on a high level.

For instance, posting things like Sullla's writeup on his games on the front sends a message. Personally I see CFC more as a filling a journalists intented role in society, we investigate, write on, discuss and criticize the games flaws and strengths.

I think Firaxis history has shown they do listen to the fans, and I believe they want us on their train because they know they are nothing without us. They can never take apart and produce variants of the game in the same extent as the whole CFC modding society does. But they can have an open dialog with us and refine the core game.

I think the constructive entry point here should be why this patch was needed to start with. Many of the flaws on release days should not have been there IMO. Maybe Firaxis should have been even more transparent on how the game was being developed? Maybe they should have asked more of us to beta-test?

But no, we should not allow CFC to act as a political tool and "enforce" Firaxis. Were I Firaxis, I'd give the finger in that case and start making other games. I can't honestly believe they want to screw us over in any way, I rather believe it to be they have economics and a publisher to set frames for thier plans.

Very well said. Agree completely.

 

[JLoZeppeli]

It would be nice if you could clarify what exactly you are talking about:

1. They promised fast patches -> checked
2. They did promise mod tools and world builder -> checked
3. They did not promise free DLC -> but anyway checked


What exactly is 2K not allow to happen?

Maybe the game

Only joking, i think it is not something the forum has to do, in the end even on the 2k forum they give little or no account to the players, Greg and company politic is: official announcement only, with some bug finding, nothing more...

So why bother the Cifanatic forum for a meaningless and worth of nothing crusade? If it was the 99% of the forum to think that they gave us a crappy game (and it isn't) the result would be the same... A promise that they will do something by (put a date), just to calm the crowd...