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Should Government change and Reformation induce loyalty dip?

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Prester John 2, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. Prester John 2

    Prester John 2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Germany
    I welcome the idea to introduce the loyalty mechanism in R&F. What I wondered - because I haven't heard anything about it - is if actions like changing a government should induce a temporary decline in loyalty across the empire? This would reflect the turmoil associated with a revolution. After all, major government changes (not policy changes) were the cause for civil wars. Think of the English Civil War, the French revolution, the Roman revolution of from Sulla to Augustus. Plus it would make government progression a real consideration: Do I really need the new possibilities or am I wary of revolution?
    The loyalty mechanism could also be tied to changing the fourth religious policy tier for religion founders OR be triggered when you research the civic reformation. There could a chance of some cities changing religion and thus being less loyal to your empire.
    What do you think?
     
    Aussie_Lurker and Uberfrog like this.
  2. ONDOLINDE

    ONDOLINDE Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
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    That would make sense. Other Civ games had the anarchy factor, I believe it was called, and it would be fitting for things to happen in between changes, but we haven’t seen any indication they have included that in R&F. It would certainly add another variable in the complexity and would make you think twice about changing governments and religious influences.
     
  3. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    12,308
    Would definitely like the idea.....
    a massive loyalty penalty (instead of anarchy)...so instead of lost output, you have to reconquer a few cities
     
  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    5,081
    So currently you change a government without penalty unless going back to a government you have already tried.
    Sure, a loyalty dip with the anarchy makes perfect sense. A dip when trying a new government? I say nay
     
    Uberfrog and dunkleosteus like this.
  5. dunkleosteus

    dunkleosteus Lieutenant Commander

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2015
    Messages:
    383
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I still dislike the inability to return to previous government types. There are many cases in which I temporarily change governments because I need more slots of a certain policy type. I think anarchy should be associated with negative traits associated with a government. If a country prospered under one government and failed under another, the civ shouldn't be punished for RETURNING to the prosperous government. It would make sense if their were bad feelings about the Soviet Union returning to power with communism, but when Mussolini went from Prime Minister to dictator, I don't think it was a problem when the country returned to having Prime Ministers after the fascist party fell.

    I would think political unrest would be generated when a government switches from one with a high degree of freedom to one with lower freedom, or at least when there is a shift away from people in power. For example if you had some sort of Oligarchy and tried to take that power away, you'd end up with a lot of very unhappy elites.
     
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
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    5,081
    ... but you can?
    upload_2018-1-8_22-33-7.png

    Well I think your people are right to be revolting about YOU because you went away from that prosperous government in the first place
     
  7. dunkleosteus

    dunkleosteus Lieutenant Commander

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2015
    Messages:
    383
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Oh yes, I understand that. I am in favour of dissent when I switch to an unpopular government type, even if I've never had it before.

    Currently, the government types offer different policy types and bonuses but beyond that it's all flavour. There are no attributes of these governments that reflect their real-world counterparts and I think it would be really, really cool if we could get some of that. It would give us more to consider when choosing governments and really bring some flavour to that aspect of the game. For example, I can imagine that if I took the classical republic government, maybe I'd have something related to that government type in my government screen. Some sort of senate that I'd have to interact with. Different types of governments might have different ways of operating. Currently, you can change any policy card or all of them whenever you complete a civic. In a very authoritarian government, that might make sense but it would be very cool if in the more democratic systems, you'd have to meet certain requirements in order to do that, for example perhaps the number of policy changes you could make at once was based on the "happiness" of your senate, which might be tied to city loyalty or how many golden age points you're working on. In prosperous times, your senate might be very pleased to do what you want but in times of hardship it might be best to take matters into your own hands, so to speak.

    I don't think my interpretation of this is the best, but I'd love to see Firaxis work on making each government feel unique.
     
  8. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    7,324
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    I like the idea, on the face of it.....especially in the case of switching back to an earlier government. I'd also love to see the return of the State Religion Concept, & have changing State Religions and/or researching Reformation causing loyalty dips in Cities that are strong in that religion.

    As a slight tangent, though, what if each Civilization had a certain preferred & hated government types, so that switching to a preferred government would cause a loyalty boost, whereas switching to a hated government would generated a loyalty dip?
     

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