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Should i annex puppet cities when i have enough happiness?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by gingerbill, Mar 6, 2011.

  1. gingerbill

    gingerbill Prince

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    In my latest game (prince) i only have 3 of my own cities but captured and puppeted about 7 others . If i dont plan on using them for production is it worth annexing them? . I had happiness problems at the start so i couldnt , now i have excess happiness but cant decide if its worth it.

    Is a captured city you annex worse than a city you build? after you have build a courthouse?
     
  2. Skyjack666

    Skyjack666 Chieftain

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    I'm kind of new to CiV but from what I can tell, once you build the Courthouse all "annexing unhappiness" is gone. You will gain unhappiness from 1) increased population and 2) increased number of cities.

    Those factors can be negated but it takes time/production/money, etc.

    It's always tempting to annex when you have 10 happiness but I'm trying to resist unless I really need those cities to be customized for some purpose like army production, or wonder building.
     
  3. oawiefga

    oawiefga Warlord

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    It takes time or money to build the courthouse. The only time I annex is when the city location is just so good/strategic that I have to be able to control production. The other benefit/reason to annex is if I need to purchase tiles.
     
  4. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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    The only reason to annex a city is if you absolutely need to control the production. So if it's on a far away continent, and you need more units there, then sure do it. If it's in a solid gold position but is refusing to build the right buildings, then ok.

    If it's a wonder building monster, or you need another space part producer, then sure. (though the latter is best to wait until you're ready to use it)

    Else the 'bonus' culture/reduced SP cost is by far more useful.
     
  5. gingerbill

    gingerbill Prince

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    thanks for the info
     
  6. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    After the courthouse is built; it's no different than one you built other than any maintenance costs associated to the court house.
    Chances are if you do annex the city you'll quickly get it a Granary & an Aqueduct which will cause the city to grow enough to where you shouldn't notice the maintenance cost.

    (Also if you are now thinking of replacing the city note that a puppet can not be razed without first annexing; you needed to have chosen the raze option when the initial puppet vs annex vs raze if you wanted to avoid a social policy cost increase from a temporary city.)

    The main downside associated to annexing a city is the social policy increase. (Which with another policy is somewhat reduced but not eliminated.) So unless the puppet is refusing to build cultural buildings it would slow down the next policy.

     
  7. wcbarney

    wcbarney Know-it-all

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    In my last really good pre-patch game, playing as Washington at Emperor level, standard map size: About 80% through conquering the world, I started having serious happiness problems. I was building paratroopers like crazy back home and jumping them all around to use as garrison troops (+1 happiness each), but was still getting mainly unhappy faces. So I started annexing some of the more productive puppet cities, and buying the happiness buildings there. This tactic kept happiness near or above zero for the rest of the game. 'Course, in retrospect, the unhappiness was caused by my huge population, so I could have let them stay unhappy & even starve themselves to death.:lol:
     
  8. Kilmir

    Kilmir Chieftain

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    I'm only an average player, but I have noticed that the AI can be pretty weird in building orders. Especially if your happiness is barely positive, check if your larger puppet cities have build colosseums, theatres and stadiums. After I found out mine hadn't I took control and started building those asap. Happiness hasn't been an issue for me since.
     
  9. Toshiro126

    Toshiro126 Warlord

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    I guess I'm a control freak. I like being able to control the production. I annex the cities after I've saved up enough to buy a courthouse for them. Of course I'm not much of a warmonger so the amount of cities I actually take over is fairly small.
     
  10. Daedal

    Daedal Prince

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    I'm not sure of the formula behind this, but I've noticed that annexing a large (size 7+) puppet city and then immediately buying a courthouse results in a net gain of 2-4 happiness.
     
  11. Polish

    Polish Warlord

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    The happiness gain comes because you took a happiness hit when you annexed the city then removed it with the courthouse.

    The only reason to annex puppets IMHO is if they are in a strategic location--like a seaport on the second ocean so you can get ships out there--or look like particularly jucy production centers close to the "action." Otherwise, puppets pretty much build what I would want. First they focus on on no maintenance gold buildings, then science and cultural buildings. If your empire is in a negative happy situation they will build happy buildings. They mostly wind up happiness neutral or positive, add gold to the treasury, and help build science and culture. And most of all, puppets do not add to the cost of Social Policies.
     
  12. Daedal

    Daedal Prince

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    I meant that I got a 2-4 happiness gain over the puppet city, not over the annexed city without a courthouse. I think pre-patch the courthouse only removed 5 unhappiness so you'd never gain happiness by annexing a city unless you kept it small. It made sense to keep all cities puppeted unless there was a strategic reason to annex them.

    Post-patch the courthouse removes all 'foreign' unhappiness so the city becomes exactly like one of your own with an extra 4 gpt maintenance. Like I said, I don't know what the break-even point is that makes it profitable (happy-wise) to annex a city and build a courthouse, but it seems like big cities do reach a point where it causes more unhappiness to keep them as puppets.

    This is a big factor when you're going for world domination and 4 gpt means nothing, but a few happiness means keeping up normal production/combat strength.
     
  13. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    All the courthouse does is eliminate the "occupied" happiness penalty from annexing.
    Chances are you had the social policy that adds one extra happiness to all non-occupied cities. (Theology?)
    and/or may have had Freedom (base one) and immediately hired a specialist in that city.

    (Building any new happiness structures in the annexed city after the courthouse will also increase net happiness.)

     
  14. vexing

    vexing knows

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    annexed cities with courthouse do not produce city unhappiness. it's a bug
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=404149
     
  15. Iberian

    Iberian Prince

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    It is a bug and when I start having happiness problems I start annexing them. Really though if you have piety you should be good on happiness if you are running a large empire.
     
  16. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Interesting. Well, considering that court houses cost maintenance, I think they should NOT fix the bug but should instead document that it also reduces the unhappy from number of cities.
     
  17. GoodSarmatian

    GoodSarmatian Jokerfied Western Male

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    Given how the AI values city placement most cities aren't worth annexing.
    I only do it when hey are in a really good location for a production city: At a river, lot's of farmland and hills, maybe marble in the radius, or when they are at a coast where I don't have any cities yet and want to build a navy.
     

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