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Should Pelosi get a pass?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Zulu Impi, May 15, 2009.

  1. BSmith1068

    BSmith1068 Deity Retired Moderator

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  2. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, one of the leaders of the Democratic party in Congress, was given a disputed amount of information concerning whether or not the Bush administration was, or was going to, torture terrorist suspects back in 2003 or 4. Now the CIA is saying she had a lot of info and she says she had nearly none. Classic he said she said.
     
  3. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    So after being briefed and then objecting to the use of waterboarding.
    Your are then a hypocrite and war criminal because you didnt resign ? were complicit ? didnt object loudly enough ? Should have tried to pass a law banning torture ? ..... oh wait


    It seems that classic Bush administration only telling what it wanted.
    specificly that EIT employed were legal and withheld information which contridicted its own policy.

    /shugs After McCain pass hes anti torture law Bush was quite happy to use a signing statement effectively nullifying the law.
    maybe if the Right pushes hard enough we may even get a congressional investigation into torture. Obama iam sure remains flexable over these matters.

     
  4. Rik Meleet

    Rik Meleet Top predator Retired Moderator

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    Thanks.

    We all know that the CIA has proved itself to be woefully untrustworthy during the times of the Bush administration, especially (in this case) considering that Mrs Pelosi was not part of the President's party at that time, thus was not automatically viewed as OK by them. Take that into acount when assessing Mrs Pelosi's level iof information. Reading the Washington post article, I've noticed that she states that she was misled, and not "not-informed". She's not denying the CIA informed her, she states that the CIA gave her confusing or incorrect information. (See the similarity with the first "justification" of the Iraq-war; incorrect information from the CIA to Bush about (later proven incorrect) posession of WMD.

    OTOH politicians lie. Period. And therefore they are not trustworhty on their words. Which means we as citizens need to be sceptic.

    Taking everything into consideration, the only sane conclusion can be that Mrs Pelosi was informed (because that was obliged) by the CIA, but in such a way that would ensure that the Bush administration had their ways at the time; in other words vaguely or multi-interpretable. of course, with hindsight, Mrs Pelosi should have demanded more clarity, but frankly I doubt the CIA is willing to provide sufficient clarity, even to senators/congesmembers - isn't the goal of the CIA to create, discover and keep secrets ?

    In all, the question "Should Pelosi get a pass?" should be answered with: "only when we know (and proven beyond reasonable doubt), what Mrs Pelosi was told can we decide on whether she should get a pass or not".
     
  5. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Which argues in favor of a point I saw a commentator on tv say tonight, and she should have just owned up to knowing, apologized, and said there was nothing she could have done. Or admitted to handling it wrong.

    As it stands, if she loses out now, loses her power or office, even goes to prison, truth is not all that many people, even among the Democratic base, is going to care all that much.

    So toss her in. Sink or swim. Don't care either way.
     
  6. .Shane.

    .Shane. Take it like a voter Retired Moderator

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    Other than bad judgment and, at worst, a public lie, what law do you think she broke?

    I'm glad you've come around to the idea that all the Bush-era war criminals should be prosecuted. Good for you.
     
  7. Smidlee

    Smidlee Deity

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    When the politicians themselves become the targets like Sept.11 there no doubt they were for torture.(whatever the cost) Now that it has been 7+ years since the attack they are going back into their "self-righteous" mode.
     
  8. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    Oh you mistake my comment. My mind hasnt changed at all. I was answering anothers question of 'pass from what'?....:)
     
  9. Rik Meleet

    Rik Meleet Top predator Retired Moderator

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    It has now become clear that the enlisted folks working at Abu Ghraib were ordered to torture from higher up, so that is not a case of MB's beloved "bad apples" theory, but clearly a systematic government intended breach of human rights.
     
  10. BasketCase

    BasketCase Username sez it all

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    I don't really care if Pelosi gets a pass or gets tried for war crimes or whatever.

    The fact that Pelosi knew about the whole waterboarding thing and kept her mouth shut made my day all by itself. Either the Democrats have to put her on trial for war crimes along with George Bush, or they have to let George Bush off the hook, or they're a bunch of hypocrites.

    Fun stuff. :D
     
  11. CIVPhilzilla

    CIVPhilzilla Reagan Republican

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    Hilarious, at least after the Republican surge in 94, it took a couple of terms before the crap started to surface. The current democrats are out to set a record it seems.
     
  12. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    No...it hasnt at all. If it were as clear as you say, something would be done about it.
     
  13. I'm Cleo!

    I'm Cleo! Deity

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    Haha! The only "sane conclusion" is that everyone is lying. (Actually, I think that's probably right.)

    And let's also note that Pelosi is still in favor of investigations to get the whole story. The CIA is not.

    Cleo
     
  14. I'm Cleo!

    I'm Cleo! Deity

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    Yes, that's right. If you look at all the evidence (the memos, what was done to people, first-hand accounts), rather than second-order political decisions made in response to that evidence, then it's quite clear.

    Cleo
     
  15. woody60707

    woody60707 Deity

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    1. It is more important to go after Pelosi then Bush, because she is sill in office.
    2.EVERYONE in the whole world knew we were waterboarding. So I kinda don't see how this report is a big deal either way.
     
  16. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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  17. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Well, after we prove who was involved in the authorisation of torture, we can always waterboard them to see how much they told members of Congress. That way there's some due process.
     
  18. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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    Eh, I guess I shouldn't really be opposed to that...
     
  19. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Not at all. Merely knowing about the incidents but being helpless to actually do anything about them isn't the same thing as committing the acts themselves.

    What is incredibly ironic about all this is that Fox "News" and the neocons are calling for her dismissal while whining at the same time that the actual committers of the war crimes be given a "free pass" because their direct involvement is now "history". Now that is hypocritical.
     
  20. woody60707

    woody60707 Deity

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    Congress is the only one who could of done anything about it. The House is far from helpless in this matter. And YES!, it is always far more important to go after the bad people in office, then the bad people out of office.

    We ALL knew what was going on. Besides the bug thing, there is NOTHING new in these reports other then details. To claim the wool was pulled over your eyes is...I just don't have the words.
     

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