Should Quebec be Independant Thread

[jamiethearcher]

IIRC, Québec didn't come under British control having lost a war (though that's what is implied in most history texts), but rather France traded you for Guadaloupe.

Britain DID conquer Quebec though, and they wound up winning the war, so while France may have traded Quebec, they did so from the position of the vanquished - not exactly negotiating from a position of strength!

 

[RedWolf]

I believe that Quebecers have the right to self determination - even if that means independence.

However, I also believe that the French culture is an integral part of our heritage, history and identity. The differences between us and them is one of the things that makes this country so interesting and vibrant.

I understand why the would choose to leave - but I would hope they would choose to stay. It's corny - but "My Canada includes Quebec"

 

[De Lorimier]

IIRC, Québec didn't come under British control having lost a war (though that's what is implied in most history texts), but rather France traded you for Guadaloupe.

What jamiethearcher said.

And the Bataille des Plaines d'Abraham is a big part of Quebec's history. Oddly enough, Montcalm and Wolf have streets named after them next to the other in downtown Montreal. La Conquête is what the people remember, not the actual peace settlement.

 

[Raisin Bran]

Raisin Bran

When you wrote "Quebec dosen't receive its fair share of the money/services from the Feds" you are misinformed.

Quebec actually recieves more than its fair share from the Federal government. The soveriegnist movement has been lying about this for decades because it resonates with Quebecois.

Fundamentally the rest of Canada would be better off if Quebec left because all those dollars we spend on Quebec could be better spent in Canada.

Check out: http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/eqpe.html

This link shows that Quebec will get 5.5 BILLION dollars from the rest of Canada in fiscal 2006-2007. Thats about half of the TOTAL amount of equalization payments.

I think if more Canadians knew about this we would be demanding that Quebec be thrown out of Confederation.

We get more because we ask for more and I'm no expert but we get more also because we are the second largest populated province in canada.

We don't like it when the feds choose what is right for us. We are a distinct society, we have different needs and political vision, so we ask for more money because we spend it differently.

Our needs would be better suited by our own governement. Quebequers to rule Quebequers. A parliament formed of 65% Canadians and 35% Quebequers dosen't represent our views.

Equalisation or not we are still overtaxed because of double management.

Take all what we give in taxes right now to a Independent Quebec Governement and we will be filthy rich, nice army, paved roads and a generous surplus over that.

 

[De Lorimier]

I'd love to be as optimistic (or delusional) as you!

I think we'd be ok financially, but filthy rich? Why would we be richer than now? Yeah, we wouldn't send as much to Ottawa, but we would have to fend for ourselves too. Meaning we'll have more expenses. So...

Paved roads and a nice army? Can I have some of those drugs sir? We're notorious for our crappy highways! Tourists come from all over North America to lose a wheel cap in Quebec! Yes sir! Why spit on that huh, huh?

An army? More like elite special forces like the SQ already has, just a little bit better. Let's face it, Quebec won't be a major militaristic power, ever. What we'll need is good anti-terrorist forces supporting our national police. Less expensive and more fitting to our needs. But you know, it's almost midnight and I'm talking out of my ass.

 

[El Justo]

It's still an interesting comparison to make because if I'm not mistaken we're starting to see a tiny little bit of hispano-american "nationalism" somewhat. Didn't a state (California or Texas?) made a law about english being the official language? In Québec french became the official language a few decades ago. Who knows, maybe in 100 years we'll start to see the same situation in some states... I'd say the main difference is the American hispanic community chose to emigrate to the States rather than being there because they lost a war. That leaves marks we still see today.

yes, it is indeed an interesting comparison. and yes, the hispano-americans have seen a spike in awareness. this is a good thing i think as it shows yet another identity that the US has wrt diversity/culture.

not sure about any law like that. i could understand french being the official language for Québec as it is part of your identity. i wouldn't be surprised though if in the future, some states take measures to secure english as the official language (not that i agree w/ this though).

 

[History_Buff]

We get more because we ask for more and I'm no expert but we get more also because we are the second largest populated province in canada.

We don't like it when the feds choose what is right for us. We are a distinct society, we have different needs and political vision, so we ask for more money because we spend it differently.

Our needs would be better suited by our own governement. Quebequers to rule Quebequers. A parliament formed of 65% Canadians and 35% Quebequers dosen't represent our views.

And there a good many people who say that a parliament of 91% non-Alberta reps and 9% Albertans doesn't represent our views too well either.

As a matter of fact, 23.5% of Canadians live in Quebec. 75 of 308 MP's are from Quebec, which makes it ~24% of the total. You guys don't do so bad for yourselves on that front. If anything is wrong with the Canadian electoral system, it's our use of the archaic "first past the post" system.

Take all what we give in taxes right now to a Independent Quebec Governement and we will be filthy rich, nice army, paved roads and a generous surplus over that.

Hah. Take everything that Alberta pays in taxes, and give it all to Albertans, and we have a filthy rich state. But you don't hear us complaining (seriously) about independance do you?

 

[AdrianE]

Raisin Bran

You are demonstrating a lack of knowledge of recent Canadian history. Canada has been ruled by and run by Quebecers for a very long time.

For example: St. Laurent, Trudeau, Mulroney, Chretien and Martin - these are the names of the prime ministers from Quebec.

Almost every important dispute or disagreement has been resolved in favour of Quebec in the last 50+ years because the leaders of Canada have almost always been from Quebec. Any Quebecer who complains that they haven't been treated fairly hasn't been paying attention.

Once you look beyond the paper thin veneer of soverignists' alleged grievences against Ottawa and start delving into substantive issues, it should be painfully obvious that Quebec has gained most from Confederation of any province.

It really annoys those of us who live elsewhere that Quebecers have the best deal in confederation and yet the soveriegnists complain that its not enough.


Quebec is overtaxed because the people of Quebec have chosen a very socialist agenda. You have chosen to have very generous social programs and a large governmental impact. That means high taxes and a natural flow of jobs and businesses to lower taxed jurisdictions. Quebecers have made this choice for themselves. They must accept the consequences of their choices.

Equalization payments help Quebec enjoy a more generous social policy than they could afford on their own. Look around you in Quebec. Realise that much of what you see, has been paid for by Canadians living in other provinces. You should acknowledge that this really isn't fair.

 

[sysyphus]

What jamiethearcher said.

And the Bataille des Plaines d'Abraham is a big part of Quebec's history. Oddly enough, Montcalm and Wolf have streets named after them next to the other in downtown Montreal. La Conquête is what the people remember, not the actual peace settlement.

I'm well aware of said battle and it was indeed the turning point, but if Napoleon really wanted to keep you he could have tried.

 

[sysyphus]

Our needs would be better suited by our own governement. Quebequers to rule Quebequers. A parliament formed of 65% Canadians and 35% Quebequers dosen't represent our views.

So? That goes for all provinces. I don't hear anybody in PEI whinging that a Parliament of 99% Canadians and 1% Islanders doesn't represent them?

Take all what we give in taxes right now to a Independent Quebec Governement and we will be filthy rich, nice army, paved roads and a generous surplus over that.

Then take away the surplus you get back from Ottawa and A20 will have even more potholes.

Seriously, have you been spending too much time at the AD website or did you fnd the key to Parizeau's liquor cabinet?

 

[De Lorimier]

I'm well aware of said battle and it was indeed the turning point, but if Napoleon really wanted to keep you he could have tried.

That's Louis XV, but I get you drift. Guadeloupe or quelques arpents de neige... No contest at the moment.

 

[sysyphus]

I'm sure they're kicking themselves over that one now.

All monarchs look the same me, French or English.

 

[Raisin Bran]

Raisin Bran

You are demonstrating a lack of knowledge of recent Canadian history. Canada has been ruled by and run by Quebecers for a very long time.

For example: St. Laurent, Trudeau, Mulroney, Chretien and Martin - these are the names of the prime ministers from Quebec.

Don't come and tell me those were great Pm's. the 2 last ones screw us over big time. Momo created our beloved GST and Trudeau hated Quebequers.

Quebec Grown Prime ministers is only a way for the feds to shut up the Quebequers. by having a Quebequer PM we are less prone to think that they will screw us.

Quebec is overtaxed because the people of Quebec have chosen a very socialist agenda. You have chosen to have very generous social programs and a large governmental impact. That means high taxes and a natural flow of jobs and businesses to lower taxed jurisdictions. Quebecers have made this choice for themselves. They must accept the consequences of their choices.

and that is why we want to become independant. We do things differently .... why should Canada pay for Quebec and why should Quebec Pay for Canada.

All Provinces are not well represented to a certain degree.

Yeah I know that the maritimes and alberta might have a low % of reps.
Am I right when I say that we are gouverned mainly by Ontarians then?

Then take away the surplus you get back from Ottawa and A20 will have even more potholes.

Seriously, have you been spending too much time at the AD website or did you fnd the key to Parizeau's liquor cabinet?

Personaly I don't like the Action Démocratique.
And Parizeau is the image Canadians have of a separatist.
I don't like that guy that much.

 

[sysyphus]

Personaly I don't like the Action Démocratique.
And Parizeau is the image Canadians have of a separatist.
I don't like that guy that much.

Admittedly, Gilles Duceppe is a much better poster boy, and is quite well liked in English Canada believe it or not. The sentiment boils basically down "Dammit! If only he were on our side!"

 

[jamiethearcher]

Admittedly, Gilles Duceppe is a much better poster boy, and is quite well liked in English Canada believe it or not. The sentiment boils basically down "Dammit! If only he were on our side!"

I remember during the most recent election campaign, my thoughts were

The liberals were (and are) a bunch of corrupt bastards

The tories (led by Harper) are a bunch of incompetant twits who are going to throw away a GREAT chance! (looks like I turned out to be wrong, I am moderatly happy with Harpers governance)

The NDP: ya right

The Bloc - this is the only party that has any integrity whatsover - When Duceppe says something, I believe he actually means it, and will follow through on his promises. Its a real shame I don't agree with what he is saying!

 

[Leatherneck]

Where's Canada? Oh yeah that's where sushi comes from ... no wait ... that's the Country of California

 

[Raisin Bran]

Admittedly, Gilles Duceppe is a much better poster boy, and is quite well liked in English Canada believe it or not. The sentiment boils basically down "Dammit! If only he were on our side!"

I know that's weird ... I think he was voted the most trusted poltician in canada in one of the 2,936,453 polls we had during the last elections.
I like that dude!

I remember during the most recent election campaign, my thoughts were

The liberals were (and are) a bunch of corrupt bastards

The tories (led by Harper) are a bunch of incompetant twits who are going to throw away a GREAT chance! (looks like I turned out to be wrong, I am moderatly happy with Harpers governance)

The NDP: ya right

The Bloc - this is the only party that has any integrity whatsover - When Duceppe says something, I believe he actually means it, and will follow through on his promises. Its a real shame I don't agree with what he is saying!

Why is the NDP not liked in canada? IMO they have roughly the same platform as the bloc exept for the independance.

edit :If the bloc was not in the last elections I would of voted NDP. I also voted Bloc to get Pierre Pettigrew out of there.

My top 5 all time hated politicians
from to least hated to most hated
5 - Pierre Pettigrew (now hes gone all cuz of me )
4 - Belinda Stronach (won't say anything ... the autocensor is going to overheat)
3 - Stéphane Dion (I don't like his sister also ... Celine Dion)
2 - Tied - Paul Martin and Pierre-Eliott Trudeau (in French PET takes all it's meaning)
1 - Jean Chrétien

 

[Raisin Bran]

Where's Canada? Oh yeah that's where sushi comes from ... no wait ... that's the Country of California

no no no no we are right next to switzerland

 

[Leatherneck]

no no no no we are right next to switzerland

Damn I need to update my Google Earth, I had it near Latvia.

 

[De Lorimier]

Actually you're both wrong. It's next to Quatar.