Should Quebec be Independant Thread

[History_Buff]

Yeah I know that the maritimes and alberta might have a low % of reps.
Am I right when I say that we are gouverned mainly by Ontarians then?

Acutally, with 106 ridings in Ontario, they have 34% of seats, and 39% of the population. So in fact, Ontario is under represented, despite having the largest amounts of seats per province.

 

[jamiethearcher]

My top 5 all time hated politicians
from to least hated to most hated
5 - Pierre Pettigrew (now hes gone all cuz of me )
4 - Belinda Stronach (won't say anything ... the autocensor is going to overheat)
3 - Stéphane Dion (I don't like his sister also ... Celine Dion)
2 - Tied - Paul Martin and Pierre-Eliott Trudeau (in French PET takes all it's meaning)
1 - Jean Chrétien

You know something thats damn funny? that list is just about identical to mine! maybe there is hope for the future after all!

ACtually, I don't really have a problem with stephane dion, I would replace him with Dalton McGuinty (current Premier of Ontario)

 

[Narz]

If Quebec wants to be independent sure, why not?

 

[William GBTW]

I make deal. I help Quebuc be indepedant. In exchange Quebec help Texas be free from Yankee bondage. Deal? We in Texas will except it. Tell me how to contact the Quebecan Resistence.

 

[jamiethearcher]

I make deal. I help Quebuc be indepedant. In exchange Quebec help Texas be free from Yankee bondage. Deal? We in Texas will except it. Tell me how to contact the Quebecan Resistence.

you want the Québécois resistance, not the Quebecan resistance! thats even worse than calling them Quebecors!

 

[William GBTW]

Pardon me; I thought about that...I want to learn French (so I can work at NATO) but I don't know it...I mean how to I contact the Québécois resistance. I offer them mutual aid deal from the Southern Resistence (I'm Major in it...no more save to resistence leaders).

 

[Mulholland]

As an anglophone and a happy Quebecer I've gotta tell you that I really don't want to see my province, my home, become completely independent. Anglos are already looked down upon by the Francophone majority in this part of the world. It's a constant struggle to get official papers in your official language, and even if you speak french functionally you will be passed over by employers for unilingual Francophones. Quebec has already trounced upon peoples rights to educate thier children in the language of thier choice, and to advertise in languages other thaen French. There are language police and heavy fines for putting apostrophes in your business signs.
Quebec is gripped by paranoia about losing thier language and thier culture, so much so, that it is a struggle for those less than french to survive. The Sherbrooke area where I live used to be 80% english, and over 20 years and two referendums we now constitute only 2% of the population. The english community here has a 50% higher unemployment rate than the French despite 25% more hold University degrees.
Old loyalist communities in southern Quebec are a dying breed, and only being further quashed by culture and language policies. I fear that an independent Quebec would simply become more introverted, and xenophobic leading the few remaining anglo communities to dissapear.
I don't want to move to Alberta, Ontario or BC. Quebec is my home. My family is here, my Francophone girlfriend is here, my roots are here. But if the province is to seperate I see dried up investment, economic depression, more stomping on Anglos for the 'salvation' French language. Tyranny of the majority, indeed.

 

[El Justo]

that was a good post Mulholland. thanks for sharing.

 

[jamiethearcher]

As an anglophone and a happy Quebecer I've gotta tell you that I really don't want to see my province, my home, become completely independent. Anglos are already looked down upon by the Francophone majority in this part of the world. It's a constant struggle to get official papers in your official language, and even if you speak french functionally you will be passed over by employers for unilingual Francophones. Quebec has already trounced upon peoples rights to educate thier children in the language of thier choice, and to advertise in languages other thaen French. There are language police and heavy fines for putting apostrophes in your business signs.
Quebec is gripped by paranoia about losing thier language and thier culture, so much so, that it is a struggle for those less than french to survive. The Sherbrooke area where I live used to be 80% english, and over 20 years and two referendums we now constitute only 2% of the population. The english community here has a 50% higher unemployment rate than the French despite 25% more hold University degrees.
Old loyalist communities in southern Quebec are a dying breed, and only being further quashed by culture and language policies. I fear that an independent Quebec would simply become more introverted, and xenophobic leading the few remaining anglo communities to dissapear.
I don't want to move to Alberta, Ontario or BC. Quebec is my home. My family is here, my Francophone girlfriend is here, my roots are here. But if the province is to seperate I see dried up investment, economic depression, more stomping on Anglos for the 'salvation' French language. Tyranny of the majority, indeed.

Both of my brothers went to Bishops University in Lennoxville Que. which is just out side of Sherbooke. Neither of them spoke a word of french when they started, and neitehr of them speaks a word of it now. Its an English university, in an English town. They do say its like night and day when they go to Sherbrooke though, becuase NO one speaks english there.

But as far as I know, Bishops brings in enough anglo students that at least lennoxville will always be Anglo - so there is some hope!

Its probably the same with Montreal - they have McGill and Concordia - everytime I have been to Montreal, I have gotten by just fine with only english - I actually found the people to be quite friendly and helpfull - It could be the difference between being a tourist and a resident though.

 

[Mulholland]

Both of my brothers went to Bishops University in Lennoxville Que. which is just out side of Sherbooke. Neither of them spoke a word of french when they started, and neitehr of them speaks a word of it now. Its an English university, in an English town. They do say its like night and day when they go to Sherbrooke though, becuase NO one speaks english there.

But as far as I know, Bishops brings in enough anglo students that at least lennoxville will always be Anglo - so there is some hope!

Its probably the same with Montreal - they have McGill and Concordia - everytime I have been to Montreal, I have gotten by just fine with only english - I actually found the people to be quite friendly and helpfull - It could be the difference between being a tourist and a resident though.

No way! Lennoxville. That's my town! Though we've now amalgamated with Sherbrooke. There are alot of English students here, but they spend thier four years partying thier arses off and then leave. Don't get me wrong I love 'em to death. But, like I said, there is little oppurtunity here for Anglos unless you want to answer phones, Cook, or be a Teacher/Professor. I myself fall into the Cook/aspiring teacher category. I love this province but sometimes I have to sit back and wonder what it would be like If english and french were given equal status.

 

[Evie]

Exceuse me, Mulholland? Did you just decry the fact that employers in Québec prefer to employ people who are fully proficient in the language of the MAJORITY of Québec inhabitants?

Geez, imagine that. Next they're going to ask you to have experience or training in the type of work you're applying for.

And for the record, MOST employers will also prefer a frenchmen who is also proficient in English to one who isn't.

It's just common sense. You hire the employee that can understand the most customers possible. Someone who speak French AND English is best, someone who speak French but isn't very good in english, second best (because he can reach the french majority but not the english minority), those who speak English but aren't very good in french come third (because he only reach the minority, just the majority), and someone who doesn't speak either comes last.

That'S only, you know - being sensible.

 

[Mulholland]

Exceuse me, Mulholland? Did you just decry the fact that employers in Québec prefer to employ people who are fully proficient in the language of the MAJORITY of Québec inhabitants?

Geez, imagine that. Next they're going to ask you to have experience or training in the type of work you're applying for.

And for the record, MOST employers will also prefer a frenchmen who is also proficient in English to one who isn't.

It's just common sense. You hire the employee that can understand the most customers possible. Someone who speak French AND English is best, someone who speak French but isn't very good in english, second best (because he can reach the french majority but not the english minority), those who speak English but aren't very good in french come third (because he only reach the minority, just the majority), and someone who doesn't speak either comes last.

That'S only, you know - being sensible.

Your sarchastic tone really isn't appreciated, brother. And yes, I fully understand that in jobs such as customer service, and in business etc. fluent french is much more useful. But an anglo who simply applies for a job as a factory grunt or a labourer that requres a marginal level of french will be passed over for those who speak more french. Further, just based on Anecdotal evidence it seems like it is far easier for Quebecers with Marginal english to get a job outside the Province than it is with Anglos with marginal french getting jobs within the Province.

 

[emzie]

Mullholland's post sums up bascially my problem with Quebec and Francophones. While Ontario isn't offically bilingual, any area having a 5% or more Francophone population is treated as bilingual. I don't see why Quebec won't do something simular for Anglophone areas.

 

[Vinc]

I don't see why Quebec won't do something simular for Anglophone areas.

What exactly should change? There are already english schools, hospitals and newspapers. And practically everyone (in Montreal at least) speaks english. What more needs to be done to make the english population of Québec happy? The only thing they can't really do is advertise the way they want. Words in french need to be twice as big as the english ones. And the law isn't even really enforced.

Oh, and immigrants have to send their kids to french schools.

 

[Underseer]

I could care less. Whether they're independent or not, they're still stuck on the same continent with us yankees! USA! USA! USA!

 

[Evie]

Last I checked, Franco-ontarians had to throw up a major media storm just to keep Ottawa's one and only french hospital a few years back. Whereas I can,t remember the English healthcare in Montreal being endangered at all in recent memory.

There are english schools in virtually every region of Québec that's the least bit urbanized.

Mulholland - even in factory jobs, you have to be able to quickly understand everyone around you, one would imagine. Thus, yes, being more proficient in french (in a majority-french area and company) or in English (in a majority-English job) is, in fact, an advantage that it'S perfectly normal to consider.

Hell, I can think of at least one job in a perfectly french-speaking city of a perfectly french-speaking region of Québec, where I was told my (spoken) english wasn't quite good enough to make the cut (I have a noticeable accent) - they wanted native english speakers.

It goes both ways.

 

[Temy]

I accept the entire thing - I mean, in Western Canada, there are separatist movements like Alberta's or BC's, so as much to support Quebec's (or the other way around). Besides, there is a projected $14 billion CAN (and probaably $US if the change rates get higher still than today) surplus in Quebec.

But perhaps other Atlantic provinces are ready to associate with the entire project, especially Newfoundland.

 

[sysyphus]

Maybe Ontario should just separate and save everyone the bother. Seems like we're the ones everybody wants to get away from.

 

[Raisin Bran]

Maybe Ontario should just separate and save everyone the bother. Seems like we're the ones everybody wants to get away from.

Well there is a common saying in Quebec and it goes like this :

'' What is the Province that nobody likes?
What is the province that likes nobody?
Ontario! ''

Maybe we should all stay together and rethink our federal governement. Make it like the states ..... A central Governement to control ... money , army and international affairs and give provinces more power to manage their own things.

 

[Che Guava]

Well there is a common saying in Quebec and it goes like this :

'' What is the Province that nobody likes?
What is the province that likes nobody?
Ontario! ''

Maybe we should all stay together and rethink our federal governement. Make it like the states ..... A central Governement to control ... money , army and international affairs and give provinces more power to manage their own things.

Isn't that kind of how things work now? The Feds take care of money, army, foreign relations, and provinces get resources, education and health. What else would you suggest that the provinces get power over?