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Should Sweden attack Libya?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Loppan Torkel, Mar 20, 2011.

  1. Loppan Torkel

    Loppan Torkel Deity

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    As most know another military intervention in this region by western powers is a touchy subject and in one way or another it will probably continuously blow up in the face on any participants. Politicians are debating what role Nato should have in this conflict. One bright idea would be to bring in neutral parties and nations from the Arab world do some work. Trying to remain, at least officially, neutral has now made Sweden, amongst others, a candidate to uphold a no-fly zone in the area.

    1. I'm not particularly fond of Gaddafi.
    2. the loss of human lives is tragic.
    3. I can't foresee any obvious good results after another intervention in the region, but a backlash for those who participate is likely.
    4. An intervention may intimidate other regimes from using force as brutally as Gaddafi has.
    5. We, the Swedish people, won't gain anything of value, except maybe some goodwill and perhaps sell in our jets to other nations, if they do well.

    Do I as a citizen i neutral Sweden have a moral obligation to support an attack on Libya, which is in a state of civil war? On what moral ground in that case? Will this responsibility continue and stretch globally as more nations with an increase of economical and democratic issues revolt against their governments/regimes? Has our neutrality lost all meaning?
     
  2. Ingvina Freyr

    Ingvina Freyr wants a Steamfree option

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    If it was as a part of a UN action, then yes. Otherwise no.

    Our neutrality lost its meaning after the first world war. After that there was a point in hiding behind an alleged neutrality but there isn't any more.
     
  3. Pokurcz

    Pokurcz Emperor

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    Yes, but only with the "Wasa" ship.

    Seriously, if the French can so can the Swedes.
     
  4. emzie

    emzie wicked witch of the North

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    Denmark sent 4 F16s. You don't want to be upstaged by Danes, do you?
     
  5. Volum

    Volum The Zapper

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    We're sending 6!

    Norway Power!
     
  6. emzie

    emzie wicked witch of the North

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    Sweden, this is just getting embarrassing. :shake:
     
  7. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Yes. Time for neutrality to end and join NATO :p
     
  8. Truthy

    Truthy Chatbot

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    Not looking good Sweden. Your being upstaged by all the other Scandinavians. I bet Finland will send 8 F16s.
     
  9. Loppan Torkel

    Loppan Torkel Deity

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    They'd need to buy some first. :p

    UN-responsibility needs to be divided into smaller regions. UN nations closer to Libya should be forced to take a greater responsibility in that mess.
     
  10. Truthy

    Truthy Chatbot

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    Even after buying an air force, Finland would be attacking Libya before Sweden made up its mind.
     
  11. emzie

    emzie wicked witch of the North

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    They have F18s.

    I really spend way too much time on wikipedia if I'm able to recall trivial details like this.

    An obligation? Not to pick sides in a civil war, no. To protect civilians from military strikes? Yes, I think you have that obligation.

    A combat demonstration of the Gripen might be useful in convincing a few countries to pick it over the F-16, which is, of course, a very good reason to engage in war :lol:
     
  12. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

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    No, you guys would just screw it up and end up bombing a hospital or something.
     
  13. Lillefix

    Lillefix I'm serious. You can.

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    Ditto. And "trivial" comes from trivium which was a preparatory for quadrivium in the middle ages university system. Trivium was apparently much easier than quadrivium. I discovered this on Wikipedia two days ago when I wanted to know more about trivium.


    Anyway. Four planes, six planes ten planes. Does it matter in the end? Don't the Americans, British and French already have hundreds of planes at their disposal?
     
  14. kronic

    kronic Deity

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    I wouldn't bother if I were a Swede. You're not going to get the oil contracts anyway.
     
  15. emzie

    emzie wicked witch of the North

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    I don't think the Americans intend to be the major player in this. There's more French fighters flying over Libya than American, I think.

    The 4-and-6 fighter contributions add up.
     
  16. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    I've read it's actually six from Denmark - four to take part and two as 'backup planes'. I don't know what exactly that means, but they've sent six F-16s to Sicily.
     
  17. stuge

    stuge Emperor

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    Wasn't one of the reasons for Sweden changing to a professional army that it could become more active in international operations?

    I'd say here's a pretty good chance at that. Let's see the Gripen fly.

    (I'm mostly interested in the warpronz aspect.)
     
  18. Loppan Torkel

    Loppan Torkel Deity

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    Are they still civilians when they carry Ak-47's? It seems the Secretary-General of the Arab League now is criticizing the military intervention. It seems he thought it wouldn't mean any attacks to ground targets in Libya. Great early development!
    I'm sure Brazil and India will keep half an eye on the performance of the Rafale, Gripen and F-18's at least.
     
  19. Cynovolans

    Cynovolans Not in my dimension.

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    Only if you wear stereotypical viking attire.
     
  20. emzie

    emzie wicked witch of the North

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    Well unless you get in there, they'll only be seeing the performance of the Rafale and the American-made fighters.

    I should note, and I hate doing this, my comments along these lines are sarcastic -- the last thing America needs is more competition in arms dealing.
     

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