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Should Sweden attack Libya?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Loppan Torkel, Mar 20, 2011.

  1. Loppan Torkel

    Loppan Torkel Deity

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    I personally don't care that much either way for our "neutrality", but it could be used an acceptable reason for not wanting to intervene. It's the intervention by Sweden in Libya by itself and in its current form I'm questioning.

    I'm curious to see how this turns out. Sweden has close to nothing to gain by attacking Libya and there's always different risks involved when meddling in the Middle East. If this goes to hell like most things do down there, I don't see any good reason to participate in anything in the future that doesn't directly benefit Sweden. I'll just turn off the TV.
     
  2. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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    Considering Sweden otherwise is one of the staunchest supporters of the UN system, and this is the clearest UN mandate for serious action since the first Iraqwar in 1991, it would be a definite change of character for Sweden not to rally for a Libyan deployment now.

    The long term Big Idea behind the effort is sort of lacking, which is a serious problem. Short term, the task of taking Ghaddafi's military assets apart is quite clear.
     
  3. Loppan Torkel

    Loppan Torkel Deity

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    Sure, Sweden should support UN resolutions, but I'd still rather see a more thought-out model for which nations should intervene in what places. I don't think this will be feasible for much longer.
     
  4. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    The russians, quite smartly, abstained from vetoing the resolution and are letting the UK and France dig themselves into a hole. I expect that Sweden will too. The french and british are into this more due to the vanity of that british idiot Cameron and that french dwarf Sarkozy than anything else (else why didn't the british had any "humanitarian" qualms over being accomplices in razing Fallujah in Iraq, for example), and they may well end having their teeth kicked in if their american ally decides to pull out and leave them holding the mess in Libya. I'm not sure the americans want to pull another 1956, though. I'm not sure they know what they want!
    The next NATO meeting will be interesting!
     
  5. Hakim

    Hakim Parasocial

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    Actually I'd prefer if my country got involved in decade long bloody clean-up rather than short token displays of what our defence industry have to offer. The former would be an act of responsibility and holding out in long unthankful operations would make our voice carry a little more weight in international issues.

    Actually the online version of Verbose's morning paper claims that the socialists have stated their support for participation. Considering how they have chopped their arms and legs off lately you'd expect them to take more of a populist stance to recover some strength.

    Strengthening UN is in Sweden's interest as a small nation. It's also in our interest to support democratic movements. Not saying those two reasons weigh up against the risk of involvement.
     
  6. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

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    how does that relate to my sentence that in matters of foreign politics governments do what the hell they want? And that applies outside of Europe as well.
     
  7. Volum

    Volum The Zapper

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    Since there's so much talk about "Western Crusaders" i suggest the Norwegian, Danish and hopefully Swedish forces should dress up as Vikings.

    Just to get a video of Gadaffi talking about Scandinavian Viking Raiders.
     
  8. Inhalaattori

    Inhalaattori Emperor

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    I would rather ask should Libya attack Sweden? I would answer yes.

    What business Sweden has in Libya? People fighting against Gaddafi are more extreme and more dangerous than Gaddafi. Believe or not Gaddafi has been one of the best rulers in Africa. Does that say more about Africa or Gaddafi is up to you. Its also interesting to notice this huge difference between Sweden and Finland (also) in this situation. In Finland only 1 out of 20 high level politicians did not say clear "No" to taking part in this operation. One said that we should consider the possibility.

    It seems politics are really different in Sweden and Finland. We have elections in one month and anti-immigration party "True Finns" might end up being the biggest party in Finland. Sweden would be in shock if Sweden Democrats would be in the same situation. Well I have to admit some people are panicking also here, becouse "True Finns" election manifesto is quite radical in many ways. They for example want to do all kinds on nasty things to Swedish minority in Finland. :D
     
  9. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

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    "Gheddafi is one of the best rulers in Africa". First of all in case you're missing it, the people who rebelled from Tunis to Cairo would like not to have a "ruler", or raiss, but maybe a Parliament. Second, Gheddafi is one of the best of the worst isn't going to make us think any better of him. It's about time he rids the international political scenario of his unwanted presence, or someone will do it for him.
    I assume you will vote for True Finns and elect your "ruler", Harald XIV the Red.
     
  10. Loppan Torkel

    Loppan Torkel Deity

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    @Hakim: The Social Democrats seem positive to participating, it's Vänsterpartiet, the former commies that are keeping quiet.

    Good luck :sheep:
     
  11. jtb1127

    jtb1127 Deity

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    Send 20 longboats. That will do the job against Qaddafi's Soviet-era missile defense systems.
     
  12. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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  13. kronic

    kronic Deity

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    Turns out that military command will be handed over to NATO. Looks like Sarkozy didn't quite get what he wanted.

    I'm glad we're out of this show this time around.
     
  14. Archbob

    Archbob Ancient CFC Guardian

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    I heard the vatican was sending in priests armed with rocket launchers and jetpacks.
     
  15. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

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    I hope Sweden stays out. It would preserve some small semblance of their morality.
     
  16. Yared

    Yared That Guy

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    Spoiler :


    Convince someone that it is better for them to go off a station early.

    Negotiating with the civilian populace is an important part of our reality. Apply now for soldier/sailor at Försvarsmakten.se/verklighet.


    Ahh, there we go. While I myself really try to avoid conflicts as much as possible, even I can't help thinking how ninja it'd be.
     
  17. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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    Well, just a little bump in order for an update on this.

    NATO popped the question a couple of days ag. This morning the 349 head Swedish parliament voted on it. Massively in favour of it: 5 abstentions and 18 Swedish Democrat votes againt.

    So Sweden will now be sending 8 Gripen with a a tanker and a recon aircraft, about 130 people.

    One condition imposed by parliament (the Soc Dem opposition iirc). It gets to shoot at things flying, but it's not supposed to do any ground attacks, so no one should expect too much action on their part.
     
  18. Kraznaya

    Kraznaya Princeps

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    So, they'll do precisely nothing besides flying around and burning oil.
     
  19. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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    Well, they were invited, so they will be showing the flag.

    Some of the French aircraft or whatever can now be removed from flying airsuperiority, and be detailed to blow things up instead, the Swedes picking up the slack in that airsup role, be it by now a bit redundant and largely ceremonial as the Libyan airforce don't really exists anymore. But all in all that tanker and recon aircraft might turn out to be of more direct use over Libya.
     
  20. Gabryel Karolin

    Gabryel Karolin Gammelgädda

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    Yes, but this shows we MATTER INTERNATIONALLY, and that we FIGHT FOR GOOD!




    ... completely pointless. Only + would be some goodwill from France/Britain and the US.
     

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