Should tanks and Mounted Units get a buff?

[The A.K.T]

I cant see the reason right now to build a tank. They are as strong as Infantry but dont get terrain bonuses and takes oil. Its pretty stupid becouse they used a hell lot of time too buff them to the point were they were Usefull. Same for Mounted units. Knight now actully weeker than Longswodman? Come Fixais u can do better

 

[stlh2opolo]

Especially with the new combat system, mounted units just don't cut it, outside of a few UUs. Knights I find very little use for because most AI just spam pikemen anyway.

Also, anyone noticed that the Huns UU is not considered mounted?

 

[Flaviusx]

I build lots of tanks and mounted units. I think infantry is too weak right now, all you need are mounted units, archers, and seige weapons. No infantry before mechanised is worth the bother, and the only reason to build them before that is if you are short of either horses, oil, or aluminum.

Mounted units backed up by archers and seige weapons can do whatever they want, either on the field or against cities.

 

[Gali]

Mounted units are very good. All that movement allows for better positioning and they are just fine in strength. Removing the horrific mounted penalty for calvary makes them much more useful and removes a massive hole in mounted effectiveness.

Late game when artillery and bombers are killing cities with no need for meatshield calvary and tanks are far more useful. Able to pop in without damage and can catch enemy units. Plus mech infantry is in a very annoying spot to reach and Ive found modern armor easier to get.

Swordsman line is very good and make great meatshields with defensive bonuses and cover. However, they have less of an advantage over spears now with 50% bonus and with knight and calvary gaining movement mounted mobility is quite strong. Both are fine.

Oh and plus mounted promos dont save and pikes dont go to rifles so calvary also doesn't have to deal with mass death rifles with double their strength

 

[Peacemongerer]

I see the point being made... they should definitely not see a boost in their combat strength, but they should definitely be more effective at their present task. Maybe make tanks like Ironclads are with coast for double-movement in open ground, but a +1 penalty in rough terrain and give them 4 MPs. This gives them 8 mps on open ground and only 2 in rough terrain (1 on forested hills), which makes the hit-and-run role incredibly effective in the right situations. Landships could maybe be even more susceptible to rough terrain penalties like the war chariots used to be.

As Modern Armor comes in, give them the ability to handle rough terrain better, but trade that off with a penalty vs. artillery/bombers (Which makes sense bc Modern Tanks have to deal with anti-armor technology now).

Horsemen, Knights and the like are fine... Cavalry isn't supposed to be something you just spam (Although the Huns have found a marvelous way to do this with Horse Archers) it's supposed to be highly effective swooping-in to support infantry and at moving quickly. Currewnt cavalry usually does this well. Maybe a minor charge buff (15% vs. wounded units or something) might make things more interesting and realistic, but that's about it.

 

[Stalker0]

Mounted Units require a lot more tactical planning but are still stronger overall than their nonmounted equals on the open field.

A few keys:

1) Flanking bonus: Its easy to move several mounted units to surround an enemy and gain a solid bonus against them.
2) More health. In GK, mounted units don't normally die even to their counters in one shot. So you don't have to be terrified of pikemen with knights. Using ranged attacks to soften up the pikemen, you can then push them with knights and run back to heal.
3) Healing: Place medics at your frontier city and run knights back to heal. They can keep coming back at full and get a lot of use.

 

[ezbutton]

Mounted Units require a lot more tactical planning but are still stronger overall than their nonmounted equals on the open field.

A few keys:

1) Flanking bonus: Its easy to move several mounted units to surround an enemy and gain a solid bonus against them.
2) More health. In GK, mounted units don't normally die even to their counters in one shot. So you don't have to be terrified of pikemen with knights. Using ranged attacks to soften up the pikemen, you can then push them with knights and run back to heal.
3) Healing: Place medics at your frontier city and run knights back to heal. They can keep coming back at full and get a lot of use.

Yup, Stalker hit all the points that makes cavalry units useful. I just wanted to add that mounted units are perfect for war of attrition, hit and run tactics in the open field and pillaging. If your using them to siege a city than obviously your using them wrong unless your covering your flank and siege units. Its unfortunate their strength is a lil weakened under the new health mechanics, they were buffed by adding an extra movement (knights have a four movement as opposed to the three in vanilla; try out camel archers for some good times as this UU got significantly buffed from this change)

 

[Ogenvi]

Im not agree with the new combat system too.

- Helicopter 60 Strenght? Infantry, Marine and Paratroopers have more than this, and now this stinks.
- Range Units powerless. now the artillery and rocket artillery do less than the half these caused before.
- Battleship powerless (too). I don't think missile cruiser is better than battleship, and a battleship was well before than now; now is a toy which is destroyed by a simple submarine.

 

[SlithyTove]

Im not agree with the new combat system too.

- Helicopter 60 Strenght? Infantry, Marine and Paratroopers have more than this, and now this stinks.
- Range Units powerless. now the artillery and rocket artillery do less than the half these caused before.
- Battleship powerless (too). I don't think missile cruiser is better than battleship, and a battleship was well before than now; now is a toy which is destroyed by a simple submarine.

I admit I don't see much use in marines, helicopters, or paratroopers. Helicopters might be useful if the AI built more tanks, but they don't seem to. Paratroopers and marines just don't have a valid place in my battle plans.

Cata/treb/cannon/Artillery is really mainly for taking cities now. It can provide supplemental firepower at best in other cases.

I don't see Battleships as powerless at all. They need a destroyer screen to keep the subs off, but they are a staple of late game naval warfare and deadly against coastal cities.

They are obsoleted along with destroyers by missile cruisers, but that is very late game and they never cease being useful. My final ranged navy before victory or defeat is usually still primarily battleships sprinkled with a few missile cruisers.

 

[GrayingGamer]

I find it to be territory dependent.

Lots of open space - mounted units are great.

Lots of rough terrain - infantry are better.

This is probably just random, but in most of my recent games rough terrain has definitely been more common (along with quite a few bottlenecks, which also favor the defensive units).

 

[Squibbon]

I find it to be territory dependent.

Lots of open space - mounted units are great.

Lots of rough terrain - infantry are better.

This is probably just random, but in most of my recent games rough terrain has definitely been more common (along with quite a few bottlenecks, which also favor the defensive units).

This is generally the tactic in a real war situation. Tanks only stand a chance on open terrain, otherwise they get blasted by rambo bazookateers (infantry in game) in the jungles. I have not gotten tanks in G&K, but I have only used tanks in the core game. Tanks are OK, but modern armour is the way to go. That -10% penalty to cities is almost unnoticeable as long as you have siege units to support them. If you ask me, it is the planes who seem powerless. I mean, there was even a battle in Pakistan when 4 jet fighters managed to destroy an entire tank division.

 

[apocalypse105]

Yeah and they now have 4 movement So they are even better at atacking and running away and with the new combat system pikes can't one shot a knight( only 50 nonus against mounted and knights is olmost as strong as a longswordsman)

Only thing I would agree with is that tanks need to be buffed again it should at least has the same strenght as its infantry counterpart

 

[Wuddel]

In the late game I am not using Infantry at all anymore. Just lots of Artillery, Planes and Battleships and 1-2 Landships/Tanks to take the 1 HP city. Melees just get crushed by the cities.

 

[Mustakrakish]

Yeah, mobile units should definitely get buffed from knights onward. Horses were OP before back when vanilla was released, but they were nerfed pretty well and they're exactly where they should be now, but more advanced units, Knights > should get seriously buffed on the other hand.

 

[Gali]

Really Calvary gained a movement lost -50% mounted penalty and no longer faces Ai former pikemen rifle spam. Its really good. and tank has no city penalty now. Unless terrain is really rough Mounted is great. As everything in Gand K it helps to ahve both. Infantry is now mainly meatshield while mounted is mobile power. Im using mounted a lot more in G and K before.

 

[AriochIV]

Mounted units and tanks have been underwhelming ever since the nerf patch way back when. Now that the resource-free units such as Pikemen and Musketmen and the Infantry line have been buffed, you have to ask yourself whether any of the resource-costing units are really worth the trouble.

But yes, mounted units and armor should be more powerful (even if that means making them more expensive). The arrival of enemy armor on the field should inspire terror, not a yawn.

 

[pspboy7]

Last game I played Austria with a lot (and I mean a lot) of hussars and I was getting crazy flanking bonuses with them. So no, I think cavalry are just fine where they are. Tanks are ok too. I think gattling guns and machine guns should fire two hexs, but get less attack at 2 hex range. The one hex range kinda seems silly when you can just melee instead. But that's me.

 

[Gucumatz]

I admit I don't see much use in marines, helicopters, or paratroopers. Helicopters might be useful if the AI built more tanks, but they don't seem to. Paratroopers and marines just don't have a valid place in my battle plans.

Cata/treb/cannon/Artillery is really mainly for taking cities now. It can provide supplemental firepower at best in other cases.

I don't see Battleships as powerless at all. They need a destroyer screen to keep the subs off, but they are a staple of late game naval warfare and deadly against coastal cities.

They are obsoleted along with destroyers by missile cruisers, but that is very late game and they never cease being useful. My final ranged navy before victory or defeat is usually still primarily battleships sprinkled with a few missile cruisers.

Paratroopers are much better now. I have used them in multi games when I ignored Artillery (To preserve the Greall wall bonus) and go the bomber/atom bomb track.

The bombers ripped through the cities and since I didn't have tanks I landed Paratroopers behind enemy lines to take the cities I needed. 65 Strength They may be a bit of a novelty item sure - but it doesn't hurt to have 1-2 of them in a modern army.

Late game siege weapons still cut through units like minced meat. Artillery spams still efectively are TOO strong against units still. Artillery rushes still end up winning games

 

[TedToaster22]

I agree OP, they do need a buff of some sort.

 

[bcaiko]

I never get to build Tanks, since they're never on the tech path I need. I didn't know they had gone so far down in comparitive strength; that's disappointing. Tanks were amazing in the end days of CiVanilla.

I can see the argument for mounted units and tanks getting a slight natural strength increase. They do cost resources, and their movement doesn't always make up for that. And, in a straight-up fight, a Knight should have a slight strength advantage over a footed Longswordsman.

I also think Peacemongerer's suggestion about extra movement on open terrain would be great. As is, mounted units get too held up on Rough terrain, and with no defensive terrain bonuses, they just get slaughtered if caught up somewhere.