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Should the EU constitution mention the Christian Church

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by r4ge, Jan 13, 2004.

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Should the EU constituion carry a refference to the Christian Church

  1. Yes

    13 vote(s)
    19.1%
  2. Only to a God with no specific relegion

    3 vote(s)
    4.4%
  3. No

    52 vote(s)
    76.5%
  1. r4ge

    r4ge Chieftain

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    This has been one of the main controversies over the creation of the EU constituion.The failure to create it, underlines the diffrences between the main powers in Europe.

    France was openly agains a reference to the Christian Church, obviously this is due to the fact that atleast 3 million people are non-christian. On the other side, we have Spain and Italy whose populations are largely christian, to be precise 99% & 98% (The economist )respectively. The numbers speak for themselves.

    I personaly would not support a constitution with a reference to the Christian church. Even though I am Catholic, I dont think it is necessary to mention the Church since would only provoke resentment in the Muslim,.Jewish, Hindu ect.. What one could include, is a refference to God, a Universal god, who can be preached by any man of any relegion. Sounds Utopian? Well no it isn't. How hard can that be? Who will it offend?- The Pope... o c'mon!

    Give me your opinions understandings.
     
  2. Caranamrta

    Caranamrta Warlord

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    No Christianism - or any other institutional religion - in the Constitution, please! We, Europeans already know what happens if any religion gets established into the base laws of a society, and worked for centuries to get rid of them from our constitutions. State religions only gave us wrong things, and any religion mentioned in a constitution is a state religion.
     
  3. WickedSmurf

    WickedSmurf pr0

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    That's a big resounding NO for obvious reasons.
     
  4. Speedo

    Speedo Esse Quam Videri

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    Doesn't matter whether it should be mentioned or not- it won't be since 95% of europeans are fanatically paranoid about religion.
     
  5. Lifeblood

    Lifeblood Defender of the faith

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  6. alhimik

    alhimik Chieftain

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    NO BLEEDIN WAY!!!
     
  7. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    As long as Europe respects freedom of religion, I don't see any reason to mention christiannism in the Constitution. I understand why it's important for Poland since it's a very catholic country and that the Church played a major role in the struggle against communism, however, I don't consider it would be truely smart to consider non-christian europeans as less european than others. Moreover, many countries with a muslim majority such as Albania or Bosnia should belong sooner or later to the European Union. So it's definitly no.
     
  8. polymath

    polymath Tleilaxu Mentat

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    Absolutely not. Never. Forget it.
     
  9. yaroslav

    yaroslav Emperor

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    No way, for the reasons Marla stated.
     
  10. funxus

    funxus Orange Cycloptic Blob

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    There probably should be something about everyone's freedom of religion, but not of any specific religion/God, and not in any other way than that it shouldn't make a difference. A no i.e.
     
  11. hawai_74

    hawai_74 mac über alles

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    religion has nothing to do with the constitution. The constitution can be inspired by religion and then recognize the utility of a religion or not.
     
  12. Yago

    Yago came undone

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    Separation of Church and State. Religion has nothing lost in any constitution.
     
  13. Stapel

    Stapel FIAT 850 coupé

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    Well Speedo, it is a hot topic here (not in NL, in Europe in general)! Don't be deluded by the big mouth that I and other fanatic religion paranoids show here at CFC ;) .

    Apart from my opinion (which is not just an idea, but a well-overthought opinion), that religion does more bad than good (other thread?), I think the idea is ridiculous.

    State and Church should be divided. there shall be no mentioning of God or whatsoever in any constitution or law, just as the state will not interfer with church services (as long as they are legal of course).

    The whole idea of mentioning it, is completely idiot. I think it is a shame it even is a point of discussion. What possible good can it do?

    Another thing: to me it looks like a backdoor method to keep Turkey out.
     
  14. EmpireofVirtue

    EmpireofVirtue Warlord

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    Atheism is a European sickness. We shouldn't be surprised to see how decadent it is once we know how much Europeans are paranoid about religion. If you don't anymore believe in good and evil, you're half dead to me.

    So yes, it should mention God as any decent nation would... but as europeans are how they are, it won't happen.
     
  15. Bozo Erectus

    Bozo Erectus Master Baker

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    If this was the 12th century, Id say yes, but since its the 21st century, the answer has to be no.
     
  16. r4ge

    r4ge Chieftain

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    Well I think you hit the core of the discussion stapel.
    By including any refference to the Christian church would prove decisive to slow down and even halt Turkey's integration to the EU. This would appease not only the Italian Pm (Berlusoni), but also Jose Maria Aznar (Spanish Pm).
    The reason being, there would be less economic benefits for both these two countries and therefore more rewards the poorer and more developing countries. This has already taken place to small extent with the massive integration of many eastern European countries or as the americans call it 'new euorope'.... Although there are many other reasons which could explain there position in preserving a connection between state and church..
    One other possible explanation could be the future integration of Israel... sounds impossible however some politicians are taking it into consideration. After all i would consider Israel as the new american state...
     
  17. Aphex_Twin

    Aphex_Twin Evergreen

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    Of course not... Separation of Church and State, that's what they call it.
     
  18. WickedSmurf

    WickedSmurf pr0

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    :lol:

    Right on the spot oh virtuous one! [/sarcasm]
     
  19. Stapel

    Stapel FIAT 850 coupé

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    Ok, we will mention God as evil and the ability to determine your own set of morals by experience, logic and discussion as good.

    Come on EoV, you do not need to believe in God, to make a difference between good and evil. I seriously think it is better to define good&evil without believing in a God or having a religion, but that is jsut me.
     
  20. Yago

    Yago came undone

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    Any decent nation would ? Your... ? Dam, that sucks, you have to move to a decent nation.
     

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