1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Should the EU constitution mention the Christian Church

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by r4ge, Jan 13, 2004.

?

Should the EU constituion carry a refference to the Christian Church

  1. Yes

    13 vote(s)
    19.1%
  2. Only to a God with no specific relegion

    3 vote(s)
    4.4%
  3. No

    52 vote(s)
    76.5%
  1. Pontiuth Pilate

    Pontiuth Pilate Republican Jesus!

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Messages:
    7,980
    Location:
    Taking stock in the Lord
    What state are you from, Empire?
     
  2. EmpireofVirtue

    EmpireofVirtue Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    U. S. of A.
    I'm from Colorado... So what ?
     
  3. Pontiuth Pilate

    Pontiuth Pilate Republican Jesus!

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Messages:
    7,980
    Location:
    Taking stock in the Lord
    The defense rests.
     
  4. Loaf Warden

    Loaf Warden (no party affiliation)

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    1,972
    Location:
    Alaska Grown, currently Outside
    His state is irrelevant, but his sweeping generalizations and apparent fondness for hurling epithets without the slightest provocation are disconcerting. My advice to him would be to tone it down if he expects to make it around here. Of course, since I don't say "under God" when I pledge allegiance, he would probably also classify me as a "despising selfish faithless socialist atheist", so nothing I might choose to say to him would make a whit of difference. Only one of the words in that vitriolic aria legitimately describes me (hint: it's neither "socialist" nor "atheist"), but after reading his unprovoked attack on Marla, I'm now past assuming that he'd even hear a rational answer like that. Cynical? Me? Hell yes. I'm not ashamed of that.
     
  5. Sims2789

    Sims2789 Fool me once...

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    7,874
    Location:
    California
    it should not renounce God(s) nor acnoledge God(s).
     
  6. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    13,455
    Location:
    Facing my computer.
    No. Of course not.
    Religion is personnal, and should stay personnal.
    And historical background is in history, not in constitution.
    Or perhaps it is because France has been clawing to defend secularism since more than 220 years (helped in that by the majority of its catholic population by the way).
    We don't like personnal belief messing with politics.
    :lol:

    I won't bother to answer EoV. He's so entranched in his narrow minded bigotry, it's hopeless.

    I just can't wait to see how he will explain his bigotry and his hate to his "love your neighbour" God. Would be priceless :D
     
  7. bobgote

    bobgote Trousers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2002
    Messages:
    4,786
    Location:
    Melbourne, VIC
    EOV: You should lurk around here a bit. It will open your eyes :) And it is never good to be labeled a bigot by a bunch of net geeks :)

    Anyways, as to the topic, quite simply, religion is irrelevant to a nation/union's constitution and should remain as such.
     
  8. Stapel

    Stapel FIAT 850 coupé

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    11,036
    Location:
    's-Gravenhage
    Amen!
    If Jesus of Nazareth is truely the son of God, mr EoV, you will probably be the first on his list of hell candidates ;) .
     
  9. r4ge

    r4ge Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    26
    Location:
    Rome, Italy
    If this would be considered the official poll we, Europeans, would live in a secular 'nation' no matter in what country we find ourselves in.
    The question i am now putting forward, is why some countries (Spain, Poland, Italy) are unwilling to accept this.
    Apart from my previous post..

    are there any other reasons which could explain their positions. Is there any connection between the fact that these countries (PM's to be exact) supported the war and their unwillingness to pass a secular constitution.
    Are we seeing foreign intervention to prevent the complete political integration of Europe? This sounds over exagerated, yet just think of the consequences of an event of this scale.
     
  10. FearlessLeader2

    FearlessLeader2 Fundamentalist Loon

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2001
    Messages:
    4,271
    Location:
    Standing atop the K-12.
    Jesus, when asked by the Pharisees about taxation, responded:
    "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, unto God that which is God's."

    A Christian pays his taxes, obeys the laws of his country of residence, and that's about it. His loyalty is to God alone. A Christian takes no oath of fealty to any man or nation, because his heart belongs to God.

    I have never spoken the words to the pledge of allegiance in school or anywhere else, except to quote them as neccessary, and it was just one of the many things that made me different enough to the other students to ostracize me, yet I still don't regret it.

    If I were to do so, I would be guilty of making a false oath, and Jesus commanded his followers to make NO oaths, let alone false ones.

    Aphex, if my stance on the pledge confuses you, then it is clear that you don't know me, and you have a large gap in your knowledge of things Christian. It is common practice in many so-called Christian religions to do a great many unChristian things, and that makes them apostate religions.

    A true Christian accepts the Word of God as his guide to salvation, and the knows the words of men as a siren's call to the jagged shoals of judgement.
     
  11. Free Enterprise

    Free Enterprise The return stroke.

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,608
    Location:
    S.C., 1 of the 50, U.S.A.
    That was an excellent post FearlessLeader2. I have one question though (the answer may seem extremely obvious however I must hear or see it). You said no oaths should be taken by a Christian. That would include oaths taken in court, correct?
     
  12. Yago

    Yago came undone

    Joined:
    May 13, 2003
    Messages:
    781
    Location:
    Under the melting permafrost.
    I think it has nothing to do with the war. Further I don't think that this are the only countries which are opposed. I think the key is their demographics and their history. I presume that Belgium, the Netherlands and France all were for clear-cut secularism. And I'd expect that also from Germany, yet Germany has states in it, which don't share that view. And propably some countries more. I think it connected with the fact, that Spain/Italy/Poland and also the UK have a huge majority of only one creed and never had religious erruptions, like other countries had. The main idea behind a secular tradition is, to stop struggle between religious for dominance. Was one group always dominant without being really challenged, no need to abondon its claim on that countries tradition and politics, however meaningless they may practically today be.
     
  13. Aphex_Twin

    Aphex_Twin Evergreen

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    7,474
    Aphex, if my stance on the pledge confuses you, then it is clear that you don't know me, and you have a large gap in your knowledge of things Christian. It is common practice in many so-called Christian religions to do a great many unChristian things, and that makes them apostate religions.

    You explained why you did it. I was however surprised. There are so many deffinitions of a "true" christian that one might get a little confused ;)
     
  14. Speedo

    Speedo Esse Quam Videri

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,891
    Location:
    NC USA
    FL2, you have a few things taken to an extreme there.

    Christianity does not exclude loyalty to country. Loyalty to country, state, family, friends, or etc only becomes a problem when you place it ahead of God.

    You refer to James 5:12, I assume, since that's the only scripture I can think of offhand that say such. It's not a commandment by Jesus, but even so, it refers to oaths given out of pride or arrogance; ie the belief that man could be holy without God.
     
  15. Hundegesicht

    Hundegesicht Manly Studmuffin

    Joined:
    May 31, 2003
    Messages:
    1,638
    As a Christian, I must say no. Government was created to rule the physical world and God the spiritual. If we were to put God in the EU Constitution it would be using his name in vain as God is neither the leader of the EU nor would he be part of any fallible government whatsoever. Any attempt to include God in the EU would only be a token meant to please men rather than God.

    When "Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart" turns into "Love the government which the Lord thy God sponsors with all thy heart" you are putting the Government in front of God and committing idolatry. And seriously, do we need another Inquisition? :rolleyes:
     
  16. Hundegesicht

    Hundegesicht Manly Studmuffin

    Joined:
    May 31, 2003
    Messages:
    1,638
    To quote the lord you supposedly serve "You hypocrite! First take the pole out of your own eye and then you may comment on the speck in your brother's eye."
     

Share This Page