Should the EU create it's own army and leave NATO

[Winner]

I disagree. We must scrap or severely weaken the Comission. We must scrap or severely weaken the Presidency. Nothing more is needed.

We must scrap or severely weaken the Council and promote Comission and Parliament This is the way to make EU more democratic - give more power to elective institutions (i propose transforming the Comission into official EU government answering to the Parliament as usual). Only then the people will be more open to EU, because they will see they can actively participate on it.

 

[Winner]

Maneuverability would be inportatnt if you were about to be atacked by UK, Germany or France..

And the problem with "big brother" is, that it prefers divided europe.. like 'new vs. old europe' debate.. old tactic - divide and rule..

Very well said. Current US government is afraid of the idea of more assertive EU so it does everything it can to hinder its developement.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Considering the Germans get in a huff every time the French try to shake up the balance in EADS, I don't see how a large effective military will be created in the short term.

 

[JohnRM]

The EU as a federal union like the USA will never happen. Too many egos that clash.

 

[Winner]

The EU as a federal union like the USA will never happen. Too many egos that clash.

Never say never. Every other generation of Europeans is more open to this idea, so i guess two or three generations will be enough for reducing nationalism and creating federal EU body.

 

[Marla_Singer]

The EU as a federal union like the USA will never happen. Too many egos that clash.

Don't ever forget something John, the USA are not the only example of federalisms worldwide, and no one has ever said that the EU should adopt the same federalism as the one of the USA.

A country which is structurally a lot more like Europe is India. I often say it in here, but still. In India, you have 30 languages and 20 alphabets. Despite this, it's only one country.

 

[MaisseArsouye]

A country which is structurally a lot more like Europe is India. I often say it in here, but still. In India, you have 30 languages and 20 alphabets. Despite this, it's only one country.

I agree with Marla ! Comparing EU and US is pointless but the indian example is relevant.

 

[Winner]

Marla is right. There is no "federalist law" saing the federation must contain only states with same culture, language or religion. Federation IMHO must have only some common goal and will of its nations to join the others.

 

[CurtSibling]

The EU as a federal union like the USA will never happen. Too many egos that clash.

Don't be so sure.

How many European people thought the USA would be a lasting power in 1776?

I think you chaps across the lake are just nervous about another large power-bloc manifesting.

Blair and his Euro chums want this new European state to happen.

And it will happen - As Americans are fond of saying: Get used to the idea!

 

[Scuffer]

Stormbind or Scuffer, I guess you would vote against the EU Constitution ? Despite the fact it would bring a further step to a more democratic and transparent Union... Well, the point is made.

In other words, it's called hypocrisy.

Not that I would expect you to remember, but actually I have said twice here that I would vote for the EU constitution. I'm just not in favour of a federal Europe.

My comments about being hard to make decisions within a large and diverse group are entirely valid, and I doubt that many would disagree with them. As the topic of EU now and US past has come up, it is worth pointing out that even now, many laws etc are delegated to the individual states, presumably because it would not possible to get consensus.

 

[Elrohir]

Personally I think the EU is a dumb idea, and is only kept afloat by Frances dreams of power and glory. (I think they lost most power on the world stage when they got owned twice by the same guys in less than 30 years)

But if they want to create their own army, then that's their buisiness, why should I care? Seems like they could make do with separate national armies, but whatever. As for them leaving NATO - why should they? I can't think of a single good reason, anyone care to come up with one?

 

[stormbind]

We must scrap or severely weaken the Council and promote Comission and Parliament

No way! The Comission isn't democratically elected... and it overturns the Parliament's decisions. It has to go!

 

[stormbind]

Personally I think the EU is a dumb idea, and is only kept afloat by Frances dreams of power and glory. (I think they lost most power on the world stage when they got owned twice by the same guys in less than 30 years)

But if they want to create their own army, then that's their buisiness, why should I care? Seems like they could make do with separate national armies, but whatever. As for them leaving NATO - why should they? I can't think of a single good reason, anyone care to come up with one?

France hates the WTO, UN and NATO because the USA uses those international organisations to promote it's own policies. In a nutshell, France would rather not hear US policies.

For France, the EU represents an oportunity to challenge the importance of the USA and the role of said international organisations.

If it were to federalise, EU representatives at WTO, UN and NATO would weild more power and influence than their American peers - thereby forcing the world (and esp. USA) to hear French policies.

It's full of hypocricy.

 

[Winner]

No way! The Comission isn't democratically elected... and it overturns the Parliament's decisions. It has to go!

Hah, is British government elected? No. Is american government elected? No. Is our current government elected? No! What IS elected is parliament and governments are responsible to Parliaments. Comission is in fact something like european government, therefore there is no need for it to be elected.

Aren't you confusing it with the Council?

 

[Winner]

EU is French empire? Huh, maybe there is some point in that, but nowadays France has only about 13 percent of EU population and therefore don't have so much power to lead EU (even with the help of Germany). New member countries have severely shaken the power balance in Union

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

I think we should "build" our own army and transform NATO into alliance of USA, EU and Canada (+Norway, Turkey and Island, but i expect they will join EU some day).

Breaking NATO can be contraproductive. An alliance of equal partners would be more benefical. West should stay firm, because Russia, China and India will surely try to challange its position in future.

(therefore i can't vote for any of offered answers to your question AVN, because I want both EU army and NATO, and I have opinion )

I agree with Winner, you need another column. Why can't the EU have its own military as well as member states staying part of NATO simultaneously? These are not diametrically opposed options. I'm a believer in regional democratic coalitions taking action with UN or other general support to stop attrocities.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Is american government elected? No.

Not sure what you mean here. The US is a democratic republic composed of a Federation of States. On the national level, the President and Congress members are elected. Some by direct democratic vote (i.e. Congress members) and others via a republic method called the electoral college (i.e. the President). Most other key positions are appointed by elected members of the government, but this is the republic part.

 

[stormbind]

Hah, is British government elected? No.

House of Commons is elected and it makes policies.

Is american government elected? No.

Congress is elected and it makes policies.

Comission is in fact something like european government, therefore there is no need for it to be elected.

Comission is not elected, and it makes policies.

 

[Hotpoint]

House of Commons is elected and it makes policies.


Congress is elected and it makes policies.

Both the UK Parliament and the US Congress are Legislatures not the Executive so from that point they are not the "Government" which I'm guessing is what Winner meant.

American and British Cabinet posts are selected not elected

 

[stormbind]

In the UK and US, the Executive do not write policy - they execute it.

In the EU, the Executive writes policy. This is the difference.