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Should the Sailors Dirge be resurrected?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by cvlowe, May 6, 2009.

?

Bring back the Sailors Dirge

  1. Yes, bring on the skeleton crews!

    93.3%
  2. No, I'm a 'fraidy cat

    6.7%
  1. cvlowe

    cvlowe King

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    Instead of having it as an event so ultra rare it is practically non-existant, should it be returned to being an event that happens in every game with ocean?

    Yeah it used to piss me off... But it's just not FfH without it...
     
  2. WarKirby

    WarKirby Arty person

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    Oh, wait, darn, I voted before reasing.
    I thought you meant that it should be resurrrected aftr being killed, in which case I'd disagree.

    but it should be more common yes. Margalard, mary morbus, gurid, et al, should be more common too.

    Only ever had the Sailor's dirge appear once, and I never saw it. Basium cast his worldspell and it just died.
     
  3. Emptiness

    Emptiness []

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    The only time I've seen it was on a lakes map when it spawned in a one-tile ice-covered lake at the edge of the map. I suggest one game in ten for its (approximate) rate of occurrence.
     
  4. cabbagemeister

    cabbagemeister Please wait...

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    Yes. It killed me once or twice before I built my first warrior. So what? Just disable it for MP and you're fine.

    i'd also like to see Barbatos return. Fighting through his twincasted Earth elementals and killing him in an epic battle with my six champions in my first FFH game was my first "Whoa" moment of FFH. I miss him. Why can't the Broken Sepulcer be an epic lair that's guarded by Barbatos? Epic lairs are lame when you can wait until you're definitely ready to deal with what comes out before you have to neutralize them.
     
  5. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    I totally agree !!

    Bring more Big Bad Wolfs to kill !!!
    (or to erase you)
    maybe the Dirge can spawn later, around orthus's birth.
    It would render it less overpowerful than the original one and still be dangerous
     
  6. Jabie

    Jabie Wanted in Monte Carlo...

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    If Barbatos comes back, he needs to appear later on in the game. He tended too appear to early and wreck Civs... which I suspect was why he was removed.
     
  7. schlalex

    schlalex Warlord

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    I love it!
    Once it appeared at Turn2, unloading its Army right into my undefended city.
    Fun :)
     
  8. cvlowe

    cvlowe King

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    No I meant its so rare now it might as well be extinct. I would love to see "barbarian creates the Sailors Dirge" on turn one, every game again!

    Exactly :goodjob:
     
  9. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 King

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    Given the weakening of skeletons a ways back, I think the Dirge could be reimplemented as it once was. I certainly wouldn't mind a bit more barbarian action of the unorthodox variety. All I ever see are Orthus and Acheron, with the occasional Tumtum on a distant, isolated land. Rare spawns have been made too rare.
     
  10. cyther

    cyther Lord of the Dance

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    The Sailor's Dirge really does need to be more common. Overall Barbs should be more exciting. I believe that the Dirge, Galean, and Mary Morbus are currently disabled until patch .41.




    As for Barbatos, he should guard the Broken Sepulcher. I think that epic lairs should have guards to prevent the AI or a spiteful human from ruining your early game. Then again Rise of Darkness may take Barbatos a bit too far because if you make a rather greedy choice while first entering the Broken Sepulcher he gets the scary Mokka's Cauldron effect from The Black Tower.
     
  11. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    How about just making the Dirge a buildable barbarian UU?

    I like giving the Dirge a spell that summons multiple Skeletons with the Boarding promotion. I also make Boarding include the effects of Amphibious, and make it purchasable with Amphibious, Combat V, and Military Strategy.


    I used to think that making Margalard, Gurid, and Leviathan buildable was agood idea too, but now I think I prefer spawning them through Nature's Revolt.

    I still think that Mary Morbus should be buildable with an Alchemy Lab, Body Mana, and Evil Alignment.



    I just got to thinking that it might be interesting for the event that notifies you about the Broken Sepulcher spawned Barbatos there, possibly not as an immobile unit. I don't think this event happens every game (edit: I just checked, and found it is active in only 20% of games) that the unique improvement is there and it doesn't happen at the beginning of the game like the old barbatos spawning did, so it should give civilizations time to prepare. Your explorers finding the stone broken open may indicate that Barbatos just escaped.
     
  12. cabbagemeister

    cabbagemeister Please wait...

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    Sounds like a cool idea except that the other buildable barb hero, TumTum, is soooo worthless. Has anyone ever been actually threatened by TumTum? He only gets built when you're strong enough that he's not a threat, and he tends to camp in a barb city anyway.

    Then again, Acheron is also buildable, and he works well. Maybe the key is to make the Dirge very cheap so that a poorly placed and improved barb city can actually build it?
     
  13. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Acheron cost 25 :hammers: and has no tech prereq. Tumtum costs 150 :hammers: and requires Trade. For now, I just implemented the Dirge as costing 100 :hammers: and having no tech prereq. I think the tech prereq is the big thing limiting Tumtum, as the Barbarian State has horrible research. I've been threatened by Tumtum occasionally, but tat is probably because most of my games are Classical Era Advanced Start games. The Barbarian State does much better with that start, as it gets more techs and it gets 2 free bronze weapon Axemen to guard each of its cities. (I've found it does better still if you change one of the Axemen to an Archer, and one of the Medieval Start Ogres to a Longbowman.)
     
  14. Giga-Gigan

    Giga-Gigan Warlord

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    Swashbuckling Skeletons... Its so simple, yet brilliant campy fun. It makes me wonder why it wasn't implemented when we first got boarding. Kudos to you MagisterCultuum, I like that alot.
     
  15. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Hmm...I just realized something. FfH's way of handling permanent summons only pays attention to the promotions a unit needs to cast the spell, and ignored other prereqs like units. I believe that means that adding a dirge-specific permanent skeleton summoning spell would essentially remove the limit on how many skeletons the death I spell can summon. I think I need to either give the dirge a special promotion, to change the skeletons to some other type of unit, or to not have them be permanent summons.
     
  16. DioBrando

    DioBrando Warlord

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    Can't you just make it a world spell for the barbarian civ? Maybe available with sailing or something like that.
     
  17. Dominicius

    Dominicius Chieftain

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    The chance for the Dirge to appear was so small that it hardly made any impact and if it if poped up in the beginning it would simply mean the death of any civ that decided to settle on a coast. If it appeared later it just gets killed instead.

    The Dirge was very poorly implemented and removed because of this. However, I do not think it would be hard to fix it if you intend to bring it back. I don't really care because it never added anything to my games.
     
  18. Giga-Gigan

    Giga-Gigan Warlord

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    I would also like to say that I absolutely loved the civopedia entry for the Sailor's Dirge, the creepy captain sounds like a rational and polite yet ruthless individual. Quite the card, and not what you'd expect from zombie pirates. Does anyone happen to know who wrote the civopedia entry?
     
  19. GoodGame

    GoodGame Red, White, & Blue, baby!

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    Exactly. Barbatos was like having 2 fully-promoted heroes as your next door neighbor on turn 1.

    I do kind of miss him too though. Maybe if he showed up on the 2 or 3rd time his Sepulcher was explored?
     
  20. Guale

    Guale Warlord

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    I would love the Dirge to return and the other super barbs to become more common. I think Barbatos should show up the first time the Sepulcher is explored. Always, without fail.
     

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