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Should there be a penalty for mis-match civies?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Xellos-_^, Mar 18, 2009.

  1. Xellos-_^

    Xellos-_^ Prince

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    By the end of my games i am usually running Universal Sufferage, Emancipation, Vasselage, Therocracy and Free market. That is some mis-match civies and during the game itself the mis-matches are sometimes even worst. I wonder if there should be some sort penalty for running mis-match civies? Free Speech and Free Religion gets along great but Free Speech and Therocracy :mischief: How is that even possible :eek:
     
  2. Brownsfan02

    Brownsfan02 WWII Buff

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    That's the glory of Civilizations you can do pretty much anything you want :)
     
  3. mechaerik

    mechaerik Tuturuu!

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    Why would you want a penalty? Don't question it.
     
  4. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    If they had to be all "lined up", then might as well go back to the old Civ II system.
     
  5. helemaalnicks

    helemaalnicks Warlord

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    Your combo is easily possible. It's a combination that is thinkable. Like, if they'd allow free speech in Iran, that wouldn't make it less theocratic, it'd still be an islamic state.
     
  6. JonathanStrange

    JonathanStrange PrinceWithA1000Enemies

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    The seemingly mismatched civics actually are all that stand between our Civizens and a brutal uncaring gamer, so I wouldn't want any further penalty (other than sub-optimal play) for choosing civic combos willy-nilly. It's in the cracks in between the would-be omnipotent state that true freedom will survive.
     
  7. I-imp

    I-imp Warlord

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    I don't really have a problem with theocracy/free speech. What gets me is how can you have Police State and Free Speech at the same time? Talk about an opposing polical party, then get arrested for it. And its all legal.
     
  8. gnome

    gnome Warlord

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    I think the critical component of a police state is that the military is used for policing, not the actual policies they adopt. One could still have free speech in such a state, though it would be weird.
     
  9. RabbitDynamite

    RabbitDynamite Chieftain

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    Oh come on. You can't tell me you've never got a kick from dreaming up what it must be like to live in your civ. Pacifist police state which guarantees free speech? But of course. :lol: I struggle to conceive a situation where there would a valid gameplay reason to run those civics at the same time, but still.
     
  10. Earthling

    Earthling Deity

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    In short, yes, and when I get around to making a mod I intend to base a whole lot more of the gameplay around your "citizens." This means happy penalties for going to war with friendly civs, civics other than Emancipation also causing bonuses/penalties, and more.

    But for the game as it is now, the most important fact is that it's already balanced, in the sense that any player can use any civics (some current ones are also over/underpowered) and the choice/use of civics develops as the game goes on.
     
  11. I-imp

    I-imp Warlord

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    I got it! You are at war with the far off distant nation of Japan while in england. You are atempting to go for a culture victory and really need those GA's culture. Meanwhile, You forgot that it was you that declared war on Japan in the first place and never bothered to peace (He still refuses to talk.) So, you are therefore stuck being in a Pacifist military that polices everyone who has free speech.
     
  12. helemaalnicks

    helemaalnicks Warlord

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    Easy, you're running a cottage economy, trying to crank out a quick merchant for a corporation, while you're getting destroyed by the WW.

    It's all still possible. In this case, you adopted police state because of a emergancy usually. A state like mine, holland, could easily get into a situation where the emergency status is declared, and where a chef is appointed to defend the country. In the meanwhile, there is no point in punishing your own people for their beliefs, so free speech can stay. Only thing that is a bit weird is that there wouldn't be any nationhood/drafting going on, but maybe police state/free speech state in question is simply arrogant/confident enough to let the pro's handle it.
     
  13. Feyaria

    Feyaria Warlord

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    Try the Rhye and Fall of Civilisation Mod, there you get bad stability for unfitting civics. (like police state/free speech)
     
  14. Xellos-_^

    Xellos-_^ Prince

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    i am not saying you can't but in real life when you run mis-match civies bad things happen. The US had slavery and Uniseral sufferage (kind of) and what happen a Civil war. When you run police state and free speech your cities should experience a occasional riot and if you have slavery and Universal Sufferage some of your cities if there is not enough military units there should rebel against you. State Property and Hereditary Rule should produce a corrupt government with a penalty in production.
     
  15. ytswy

    ytswy Chieftain

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    I'm not sure, a democracy that was in a major war might end up with a system that could be a combination of Police State and Free Speech. Take Britain in WWII for example - there was still freedom of the press (more or less anyway) but elections had been suspended and all sorts of id cards and regulations about the movement of people were enforced, especially when there was a serious threat of invasion or in the lead up to D Day.
     
  16. RabbitDynamite

    RabbitDynamite Chieftain

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    To be fair, the American civil war didn't occur because democracy made everyone north of the mason-dixie so incredibly virtuous that they decided to end slavery out of the goodness of their hearts - Athens used slaves too. Slavery was a focus of underlying resentment and conflict between an increasingly industrial, urban north and a largely agricultural south. So in other words, the CE vs. rants are nothing new.

    I don't think there is a state of affairs that cannot,with sufficent time and influence, not only make itself seem normal, but make it difficult to understand why it might be regarded as strange.
     
  17. Xellos-_^

    Xellos-_^ Prince

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    i am not saying you are entirely wrong but American slavery and ancient greek slavery were very different forms of slavery.
     
  18. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

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    I don't think such a penalty is needed. The combination mentioned in the opening post isn't as mismatched as it looks at first glance... in fact it might describe medieval Iceland quite accurately

    Spoiler :
    Although one wonders how they got the prerequisites... maybe they fooled us all into underestimating them and colonised Alpha Centauri already?
     

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