Should this part of the rules stay as it is?

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

I know it is TFs decision alone, and however he decides it will be. But I would like to have a feedback of what EVERYONE thinks (mods: please delete this thread if you think I am in any way undermining TF - I do not intend to do so in any way!)

From the forum Rules
Your rights to Freedom of Speech don't apply here.
You are welcome to have opinions. You are welcome to question certain subject matter posted on these forums. You are welcome to dislike a certain post or disagree with it. Though we typically condone people to express their opinions and ideas, we have the right to delete yours if necessary, should we consider it abusive.

This rule has been put out of effect temporarily to cut down on spam and trolling and flaming. And I agree with that, as most people here probably do. But how long can 'temporarily' be?

Wouldn't it be better to change the rule? Include a sentence that 'Opinions cna be deleted if they are prone to cause problems'? That way, the new (and now rather un-temporary) Bush-dictator rule wouldn't have been necessary.

What do you think?

(I will not state my opinion right now).

 

[Ohwell]

I think it serves the purpose very well, and it should not be changed. Abusive posts should be dealt with, but otherwise I think the rule is OK.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Some people seem to think that they will be punished if they disagree with the US or George Bush.

THIS IS NOT THE CASE, NEVER HAS BEEN, NEVER WILL BE.

BUT you WILL be if you do it in a manner that is insulting and disruptive, and that includes remarks about other leaders and countries.

Some hotheads have real problems controling themselves, so they think they are on a crusade to right what is wrong.

Lefty and I have for a long time been able to have people debate openly and honestly, but a bad wind blew in and decided THEY would now decide how we would do our jobs.

This is NOT going to happen, we will continue as we always have, so my suggestion to them is to start showing some maturity, and accept the way it is done here.

Because, quite frankly, they will go before we do.

 

[Thunderfall]

I remember changing that rule a long time ago but posters made me change it back because they thought it's a very cool rule and should not be changed.

 

[Isak]

I like that rule, and I think it should be there - in fact the rule could say: 'Mods may delete your posts if they see fit' and I'd still be happy with it.

No, I'm not particularily masochistic, but this is a private forum, privately owned and offered as a service to the public. Not as a constitutional right. I understand what you're getting at Lt. Killer, but I feel that further elaboration on the rule will only serve to undermine the power of the moderators, or at least lead to endless discussions on whether or not something is prone to cause problems or not. Well, I can imagine it turning out that way, anyhow

What constitutes abusive, is after all for the moderators to decide - and their all-conclusive power to do that is summed up in in the 'Your rights to Freedom of Speech don't apply here' part.

And the rule is cool - I think I've been guilty of quoting the *Your rights to Freedom of Speech don't apply here' part more often than I care to count. Now that's two times more in just one post

 

[hbdragon88]

It's the truth, and it should apply in all circumstances. Since it is loose enough, it can be applied how it is seen fit.

 

[nickmandler]

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
Some people seem to think that they will be punished if they disagree with the US or George Bush.

Aren't most differences of opinion non-political? From what I've seen, insults are more likely to be personal and nonpartisan. In fact, most of what I notice comes directly from what people post, not from which countries are on their 'good' list.
...But what do I know, I've only had this account for a month.

Time to change my signature!

 

[cgannon64]

I personally think NO post should ever be deleted. Closed, yes, bannings, yes, but not deletion. Its making that person's opinion cease to exist - its like eliminating someone's past.

 

[nickmandler]

Exactly. I really miss my first post that I put up years ago. I think that it was about having too much money... I think that it no longer exists.

 

[Thunderfall]

Originally posted by cgannon64
I personally think NO post should ever be deleted. Closed, yes, bannings, yes, but not deletion. Its making that person's opinion cease to exist - its like eliminating someone's past.

I am glad you are not a moderator, cgannon64.

Post deletion is absolutely necessary under some circumstances. Obvious are those posts containing sexually explicit content, warez stuff, racists comments, duplicate post, and of course spams.

Some posts just have to be deleted.

 

[Padma]

I don't think any of us like to delete posts. But sometimes it is simply something which must be done.

 

[cgannon64]

Originally posted by Thunderfall


I am glad you are not a moderator, cgannon64.

Post deletion is absolutely necessary under some circumstances. Obvious are those posts containing sexually explicit content, warez stuff, racists comments, duplicate post, and of course spams.

Some posts just have to be deleted.

Oops. I was going to put that, but I rushed that post. Obviously there are exceptions...but I don't think that posts should be deleted because they are considered trolling.

 

[Ohwell]

Originally posted by Padma
I don't think any of us like to delete posts. But sometimes it is simply something which must be done.

You bet your avatar I'd like to.

Although the concept of painting someone elses post in bold, underlined red seems rather tempting.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

This is pretty much what I hoped to hear!

Personally, I think TFs is right on: deletion where necessary, and only there, i.e. porn, abuse, insult, racism etc.......

I do hope the exception(s) will have to be few - and STAY temporary exeptions.......


AoA: I take your point, but please note that I personally differ a LOT in what I consider a 'bad wind', and especially that my personal opinion on how open and fair debates in OT were differs from your a bit.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

That may be killer, but I'm reminded of wise axium, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do".

I have to take EVERYBODY'S feelings into account, not one side or the other.

So to maintain fairness, I have my golden rule:
BE POLITE IN POSTING.

No matter what your views, this works wonders.
Everyone who's been around knows my opinions on many subjects, but I make no attempt to shut down opposing views, it would be counter-productive and ruin the site.

However, that doesn't mean I will allow insulting and abusive posts in a topic simply because I want to maintain fairness.
Both sides have, do, and will feel the equal rath of moderation if they cross the line.

That is my pledge to all of you, part of the agreement I made with our mighty leader, Thunderfall.

Just as he is our Napoleon, carving an empire out of nothing, we moderators are his Grognards, the "grumblers" of his Imperial Guard, who enforce his will and expand his domain.

Viva Le TF!
Viva Le Civfanatics!

 

[nickmandler]

It's not viva, it's vive, the imperative and subjunctive of the verb vivre, to live. But I agree with the sentiment! Of course, I'm a little bit of a French freak.
About deleted posts: would it be feasable to inform someone when you delete his/her post(s)? That way, the person might not feel so offended and will know and try to be a little more self-censoring afterwards.

 

[Shabbaman]

Originally posted by nickmandler
About deleted posts: would it be feasable to inform someone when you delete his/her post(s)?

Usually, when posts get deleted, there's a reason for it... So, the poster will at least receive a moderator warning for it, I guess.

 

[nickmandler]

Well, what if they don't realize it? What if the offense is borderline and the moderator doesn't feel that a warning is needed? There could be a large gap in need of filling here.

 

[SunTzu]

Originally posted by Padma
I don't think any of us like to delete posts. But sometimes it is simply something which must be done.

Well due to me pretty much doing nothing when i was a mod, i cherished deleting posts

 

[Padma]

Originally posted by nickmandler
Well, what if they don't realize it? What if the offense is borderline and the moderator doesn't feel that a warning is needed? There could be a large gap in need of filling here.

Generally speaking, if a post is deleted, the offense isn't borderline.

OTOH, over the last few days, I have deleted some spam posts, where a newbie would reply to a thread, and then reply again with an "Oh, and in addition....". But for these, I have combined the multiple posts, and added a Moderator Action explaining exactly what I did, and why, with instructions that the poster learn how to use the "Edit" button.