1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Photobucket has changed its policy concerning hotlinking images and now requires an account with a $399.00 annual fee to allow hotlink. More information is available at: this link.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Dismiss Notice
  7. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

Should we bring back vassals and colonies?

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by ShahJahanII, Jul 21, 2011.

  1. ShahJahanII

    ShahJahanII Homesick Alien

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,841
    Location:
    South Florida
    Does everyone remember vassals from Civ IV? And how you could liberate overseas cities to form colonies? I say we should bring these 2 features back.
     
  2. Gilkan

    Gilkan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    I agree. Colonies were a lot of fun and required you to consider whether you wanted to raze or form colonies. I also miss my buffer states. Nothing like having the Aztec and Mongol war machines under your control. :lol:
     
  3. ShahJahanII

    ShahJahanII Homesick Alien

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,841
    Location:
    South Florida
    It would be even better if they didn't increase policy costs:goodjob: You could have a huge empire, not worry about hapiness as you would with puppets, and still work on a cultural victory.
     
  4. starrywisdom

    starrywisdom Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    205
    The puppet system works just fine for that...IMHO.
     
  5. Bechhold

    Bechhold Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    497
    As long as they play a factor in say policy and AI decisions etc.
     
  6. Lose

    Lose King

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    345
    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    100% vouch
     
  7. ShahJahanII

    ShahJahanII Homesick Alien

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,841
    Location:
    South Florida
    But colonies should have no unhappiness at all. Puppets do
     
  8. JesusofNazareth

    JesusofNazareth Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3
    England's 13 Colonies weren't so happy. ;)
     
  9. ShahJahanII

    ShahJahanII Homesick Alien

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,841
    Location:
    South Florida
    Maybe we should have some sort of "revolution" system to simulate this.
     
  10. SpearMan153

    SpearMan153 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    379
    Location:
    Maroochydore, Queensland, Australia
    I'd like to see some kind of colony mechanism - maybe it could be like founding a city state that starts allied with you...

    or instead of founding a regular city you have an option of founding a colony which you don't have direct control over (acts like a puppet) but has reduced happy/culture cost hit and can later go independent (turn into city state)

    I'd like to see some kind of vassal/captitulation/tribute mechanism that would work in addition to regular puppets. AI pays you not to kill it because it knows its beat.
     
  11. The Tollan

    The Tollan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Messages:
    418
    Vassal states definitely should return in Civilization V. This would make the game much more interesting.

    I didn't play Civilization IV too much after Beyond the Sword came out, but enough to observe that the addition of vassalage was positive.

    The concept of vassalage could maybe be given a slightly greater degree of complexity in Civilization V.

    One possibility (if considered viable) would be to have two different forms of vassalage. One would allow for greater control over the vassal by its master and the other would be a looser association. There are other, different possibilities as well.
     
  12. danieladler

    danieladler Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    272
    Colonies were never that attractive for me so i almost never used that concept in civ 4. But if it becomes more attractive i would certainly like to see it in V. Vassal states on the other hand was a quite logical part of for example a peace deal or when a civ offered you to be your vassal state. But for this to work i think you would have a totally different ai than the ridiculously irrational one we have in V. I know, i know...it all comes back to that goddam stupid AI hehe....
     
  13. Drawmeus

    Drawmeus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,213
    It'd have to be a planned, unavoidable thing - industrial era techs eventually lead to revolutions, or simple time after colonization. Mismanagement -> revolution will never come up except for people who aren't good at the game, and they're already going to be frustrated.

    All you really need is for the AI to be playing for the best interests of its nation, instead of for a victory. I consider it a much greater failing of the civ franchise that the best interests of your nation and winning the game aren't synonymous (and they aren't, in I believe any version) unless you're playing for points victory.
     
  14. Sonereal

    Sonereal Call Me Ish Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    14,564
    No. Vassals in Civilization IV didn't make any sense and were ungodly annoying.
     
  15. Helmling

    Helmling Philosopher King

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,666
    Vassals made sense, but they were far too common place.

    Colonies, though, made no sense. Empires don't found colonies as separate countries, but with the Civ IV anti-growth constraints, there had to be a mechanism to offset the tremendous cost of settling overseas. In Civ V, the cost is a happiness hit, shucking the game dynamic we've had since Civ 1 whereby corruption was a factor of distance from the capital.

    So, what Civ V should introduce is distant cities sometimes breaking away and becoming CS's or new civs.
     
  16. kaltorak

    kaltorak Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,376
    Location:
    Madrid
    I'd love to. In civ4 colonies weren't very useful tho. They had to think how to make them worth.
     
  17. Mods

    Mods Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Messages:
    163
    With civilization 5's rules, if the 13 colonies were very unhappy, there's be a revolt in scotland
    So I definitely think they should get their own happiness system (Maybe they should even get to pick their own policies?)
     
  18. Ravellion

    Ravellion Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    577
    Location:
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Hear hear. And I've never liberated a colony in my life when playing Civ4. I just made sure that I did not expand beyond 4 cities on the same overseas landmass.
     
  19. Becomedeath

    Becomedeath The Destroyer

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2011
    Messages:
    423
    Location:
    Channel Islands
    The problem with Vassals was that the AI could use them, and really screw up your nicely planned war effort. Suddenly being at war with your main rival when you didn't expect to be was something of a nightmare, especially if the main purpose of that war was to capture a resource.

    It would have to be hugely reworked as a concept to get my vote.
     
  20. Babri

    Babri Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,441
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Vassals : Yes of course. I don't want to fight endless battles all the time. Sometimes I just want to show my might so that AI surrenders.
    Colonies : Yes but not like cIV. I want them to be something special. Revolutions, stability etc could combine very well with colonies if they introduce them.
     

Share This Page