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Should we or should we not have "Barbarian Leaders" in future Civs?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by egaonogenki, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. egaonogenki

    egaonogenki Chieftain

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    Whether they be 6 and beyond, or expansion packs of 5, shouldn't we have Barbarian Leaders to capture / kill?

    Of course, the names (and perhaps their personalities) should depend on the era you're currently in (or perhaps the "averaged" era of the planet.)

    Please give suggestions of the barbarians from the following eras that haven't been named already:

    Ancient:
    Amalek (of the Amalekites)
    Hitt (of the Hittites)

    Classical/Roman:
    Attila (of the Huns)
    Odoacer (of the faction that invaded Rome)

    Middle Ages:
    Tamerlane(?) (of the Tartars)

    Industrial:
    Max Robespierre (of the tyrannical faction of the French Revolution. Special Condition: The government must be in an Anarchic period and their faction may spawn on the immediate outskirts of a city.)
    Robert E. Lee (of the Confederates)
    (A leader of the most hated, barbaric Native American tribe history has ever known)

    Modern:
    Saddam Hussein (of the Iraqi Baaths)
    Osama Bin Laden (of the Al-Qaeda)
    Muamar Qadafi (of the Libyan Jamahiriya)
    Joseph Kony (of the LRA)
    Mullah Omar (of the Taliban)
    (The leader of Al-Shebab)

    Effects for capturing / killing barbarian leaders: Extra happiness in the cities closest to where he was captured/killed in the period before mass-media. However, as newspapers, radio, etc. get invented, the effect is larger, until TV makes it known across the entire Civ, and Internet intensifies the happiness effect. (Remember how we reacted when Bin Laden was dead.)
    Other miscellaneous bonuses for the civilization that does so.

    How do we get Firaxis to add this feature? As a reminder, please suggest more barbarian leaders. Thanks.
     
  2. Naokaukodem

    Naokaukodem Millenary King

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    I think it would better if we could incarnate them. :)
     
  3. Rex_Mundi

    Rex_Mundi Chieftain

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    That would require the barb mechanic to be greatly expanded. However I would like that. Especially if it would also bring back the privateer.

    Regarding the modern barbarian leaders, you have to be very carefull, or it could give the impression that you regard some religions or cultures as barbaric.
     
  4. dagriggstar

    dagriggstar Chieftain

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    Even if it is as simple as

    1 - Great general spawns
    2 - x amount of units spawn near great general
    3 - barbs attack where-ever

    It'd be better than nothing. Also adds a way of sort of incorporating some of the more short lived empires in history.
     
  5. CYZ

    CYZ Toileteer

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    I can imagine something simple, like indeed a barb general spawning with units (barb army).

    I suppose you could have defensive, agressive and guerilla ai for the generals.

    Defensive: Barb general spawns with several camps close to each other (not next to each other) and a few siege units and other units. It will stay there and require a good effort to destroy. Happens mostly when several civs are closeby (competition to get him first).

    Agressive: Barb general spawns with a decent army, including horse units (horse archers too). They will choose a nearby city and try to conquer it, pillaging anything in their way. Happens mostly if only one civ is nearby (competition not to lose cities).

    Guerilla: Barb general spawns with several camps spread out over an area. The general will spawn with a few powerfull resource-dependant units (not siege or cavalry). It will move in between the camps and try to avoid any civs or units belonging to civs (finding and trapping it is the challenge).

    This could happen a few times per game (perhaps even more on slower speeds). And a suitable reward would be gold and happiness (partly permanent and partly temporary).
     
  6. Brigg

    Brigg Chieftain

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    I like the concept.

    It could also be useful to give players more to worry about. If you don't have enough of an army (police force) to keep out the barbarians, you get a few invaders/rebels.

    How about Jefferson Davis...
     
  7. Brigg

    Brigg Chieftain

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    That reminds me that I have never pushed my unhappiness to -20 just to see what shows up...

    Sounds like a decent project for tonight :)
     
  8. egaonogenki

    egaonogenki Chieftain

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    Did you find out what showed up?

    More suggestions:
    • Bashar Al-Assad is another modern Barbarian Leader. (To be spawned near Arabic civs.)

      Most of his army units can spawn around the city of Homs to surround it, so as a condition for a wild Bashar Al-Assad to appear, the city of Homs must already be founded.

    • Another set of Barbarian Leaders: Kim Il-sung, Kim Jong-il, and Kim Jong-un. (To be spawned near Korean civs.)

    • I remember in Civ 2, Barbs were all red. In a Civ game where the barbarian game mechanics get expanded, their shield should have dual-tones. One color is always red, and another is something else.

    • Moreover, if there's a limited color palette, to avoid faction confusion (in the style of the flags of Monaco, Indonesia and the German state of Hesse,) a line dividing the two colors can be vertical OR horizontal, in order to make many possible color combinations.

    • Once you complete the Internet as a tech advance, rallies can be organized against barbarian leaders & their factions to provide an attack & diplomacy bonus specifically against them.

      (To take the example of Kony2012, the game would name an anti-barbarian rally "Robespierre1930" if the Barb Leader Max Robespierre is still out there, you already have the Internet by 1930 in your game, and decide to start the cyber-rally. Or you could have the option to name the rally yourself.)

      (Another example of a real-world Internet Rally against Barbarians (of varying degrees) was the Arab Spring. Social networks started that phenomenon going.)
      However, it should cost resources to create such a rally, but not much, because Invisible Children comparatively did not spend all that much to create the meme that sweeps the web today.

    • Some barbarians should be allied (and maybe puppets?) to our civs if they fight an enemy of ours.

      Real-world example: Before they renamed themselves the Taliban and turned on us for harboring another barbarian faction named "Al-Qaeda," hostile to our civilization, we were allied with the Mujahideen because we helped them beat back the Soviets in Afghanistan.

      Hezbollah is a Barbarian faction hostile to Israel, and is allied to (supported by) Iran.

    • A new civ can be born late (hopefully starting out with the technology of everyone else at that time) or RESURRECTED from a "dead" civ by breaking off of a Barbarian faction.

      Speaking thereof, why not resurrect dead civs that have been absorbed by a conquering civ just as well? (Condition: Happiness rating must dip extra low.)

      Real-world example: The Barbarian Libyan Arab Jamahiriya had its "Happiness" rating dip too low in a few cities because the regime was being too harsh for various reasons. As a result, a dead Libya (that ruled from 1951-1969) resurrected itself into the cities that were too unhappy with Qadafi's government, effectively becoming a new civ that broke off of a Barbarian faction.

      This new civ allied with the NATO alliance and had their help in bringing down the entire Barbarian faction of the LAJ. The capital of Tripoli was captured, but the LAJ managed to relocate it to Sirte, where the final battle was fought, and the Barbarian Leader was caught by being pulled from a drainage pipe.
    • Exile. The potential for a Barbarian Leader of a losing faction to flee to exile if either we cannot capture/kill him fast enough, or an attempt to fails.

      Depending on the tech advances of various forms of media and communication already researched, we may not know where he fled to for a long time, or ever, or we may know right away what civilizations or other barbarian factions he is now with.

    Whew, that should be all of the new suggestions I have for now for Barbarian game mechanics. I love fighting barbs and being friends with every civilization on the planet. Let's see where this leads.
     
  9. Nevyn

    Nevyn Chieftain

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    egaonogenki: You seem to take this idea of barb camps and turn it into some USA wet dream coming from a very narrow minded perspective. You are pretty much asking for terrorists in the modern era and equals them to what the world looks like to you?

    So if I play Japan, Perry will spawn on my borders?

    If I play Arabs or Persia then George Walker Bush will spawn together with Justin Beiber?

    If I play the Danes, then who?
    Who would be the terror of Mongolia? Who would be the terrorists of France? Of Siam? Would Alexander the Great have the ECB and the world bank to fight? Those guys are bandits!

    I don't see a game feature here, just your prejudices.
     
  10. Pouakai

    Pouakai It belongs in a museum. Moderator

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    The idea won't work as I see it in the OP. However, to have great generals of sorts, as a 'Great Barbarian Leader' that rallies troops for them might make them more interesting and more of a threat
     
  11. CYZ

    CYZ Toileteer

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    Certainly. Kindof like barbarian Great Generals with a serious army that will make a serious offensive attempt. This has been discussed in other threads though. The idea of terrorists is bad tbh, their influence hasn't been big (only in the modern era they had any influence really). And it would a very politicly loaded subject as well, the developers certainly won't do it. Good thing if you ask me.
     
  12. MARDUK80

    MARDUK80 Chieftain

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    Yes, this might be a fun new element along with the Barbarian Strongholds idea (from Rise of Barbarians thread). I think Barbarians in CiV need more of that "Horde" element back (Civ4) - ravaging, pillaging force which posses a real threat for your cities early in game. Barbarian GG could create an Army/Horde, or simply just give Barbs ability to gain GGs. :)
     
  13. MARDUK80

    MARDUK80 Chieftain

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    Now that I think of it, a Barbarian GG unit would remind a bit the "legendary" Civ I Barbarian Diplomat unit. :D

    Would be fun if you could gain +100 Gold from capturing and returning it to your Capital (unit disappears, can not be used like a regular GG unit).
     
  14. Kurtbob

    Kurtbob Chieftain

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    I miss the hordes of barbarians found in Civ II. Open area of the map = Barbarian army spawning pool. When the barbs came at you, they ment business. Pillaging and attacking cities. Barbs in CiV are a joke...

    With that said, yes, I would very much like barbarians expanded. However, I do not think barbarians should be named. It will just open a 'big can of worms'. A GG spawning with a large Barbarian force would not be too bad and could be somewhat scary.

    It would be great to see more barbarian units. They made the first step by making the Brute, now they just need to add: Pillagers, Bandits, Raiders, Thieves, Partisans, Rebels, Mercs etc etc. There is a plethora of simplistic names you could associate with barbarian units that shouldn't offend anyone.

    I never played Civ I, but it sounds like the kill the barbarian leader for gold mechanic is similar to Civ II. I wouldn't mind a gold bonus for defeating specific barbarian units like a GG.
     
  15. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Chieftain

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    Yeah, CivI and CivII had the same "barbarian leader" mechanics. It was a Barbarian Diplomat (non-combat early Spy unit) that you could kill for some gold.
     

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