should we use a "turn -1"?

[disorganizer]

It was proposed that as soon as the game setup will be completely gone thru poll, a mod will be told to initialize the game (with 1.29f) offline and post a pre-turn save.
Think of it as "GOD created the world for us"!

This means:
* He will use 1.29f
* He will enter the setup as polled
* He will let the pc generate the game
* He will IMMEDIATELY save it without any action
* He will post the unchanged save


There are/will be 2 additional polls up in parallel to this poll where you should assume this poll is accepted:
* who should play out turn -1?
* when should turn -1 be played out?


Options here are: Yes, No (please state why) and abstain.
Poll will be on for 3 days.

EDIT:
related discussion:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=431311#post431311

EDIT2:
this poll is informational(!)
as you could have easily determined by the fact that im not a leader, so i would have to state so when using a poll as binding.

 

[Shaitan]

I think it's a great idea. Starting location is a critical point in the game. Whether to move that settler 1 square or not is a big decision that I would prefer went to the forum. I'd suggest one small change though. Instead of immediately save with no action, give the turn -1 player the discretion to move the worker one square to reveal more terrain. It could help decision making for the city location.

 

[disorganizer]

this could be done in the 1st chat because maybe the decission of the direction will be critical. imagine you would play it out and everyone would shout at you for "moving in the wrong direction". remember the roar at the start of the first domino war? or the settler misplacement?

the second negative aspect on your addition is that moving the worker will need a citizen approval with an election. this will move the turn -1 thing into the next game, so it could only be started at 1st of september with that.

if we use a moderator for setup, we could also have this done earlier and the new president could then do a "real turn chat" as 1st chat.

another proposal (not to be polled about here, but in a second poll maybe) would be:
we let the mods setup the game. then we get the save immediately. we can discuss some days where to go, then we poll wheter the new(!) president could get the approval to move the settler offline on his first day in office and post the result.
this would give us the game early and would enable a better first turnchat and wouldnt involve non-elected persons in moving anything. shaitan, you are free to post a second poll on that matter.

 

[Cyc]

No. This totally goes against the Game of Democracy. If we re-named it the "Dis and Shaitan Show" then this proposal would work. Do it like it should be done. In full view of everyone and take screenshots of the options taken. Man, you guys are going way over-board with this stuff.

 

[Chieftess]

I have to agree with Cyc on this one. I think Dis and Shaitan are taking too much of the game away from the citizens. Where was the citizen discussion on this?

I keep saying "This is just a game". Let it be that way. If you want a Game of Diplomacy, go to the Game of Diplomacy forum. If you want a Game of Beuracracy, well... create one.

The game is over. Let's keep it that way and save the next one for Demogame II. I'm surprised that people are still continuing the demogame (amidst all the roleplay). It's over, we should be discussing the next game. No action should be taken this month. Let the next president choose the conditions that were voted on (and post screen shots of the setup screen). At the most, the mod can write up the game condititions in a thread (probably the first post of the new forum).

Plus, a mod 'Playing out' turn -1 goes against the mod not being allowed to take part in the demogame. It's unconstitutional (gee, how do you PI a mod? ).

• There are/will be 2 additional polls up in parallel to this poll where you should assume this poll is accepted:
• who should play out turn -1?
• when should turn -1 be played out?

Play the turn? (4000BC I assume). That should be the first thing of the new game. No one should play it except for the designated player. I want to see some citizen discussion on this first before it goes to a poll.

In fact, Sept. 1st shouldn't even HAVE a turn chat. The DP should post a screen shot in the 1st citizen discussion thread. After a day or so, play 20 turns (enough for a few warriors and maybe a settler in production). A build queue can even be made by the first governor/mayor.

 

[chiefpaco]

I agree with Cyc. In fact, I am starting to think twice about having active mods in the game.

 

[Octavian X]

The question comes down to: whose game has the best random map generator?
Is it possible to chose a person at random to create the new game?

 

[Daaraa]

Abstain. I don't really care.

 

[donsig]

Bravo, Madame President!

There were suggestions to wrap up this demo game and start the next with a clean slate but the will of the people was to keep the current rules in effect. If only they had heard your speech earlier!

 

[GenMarshall]

Originally posted by Octavian X
The question comes down to: whose game has the best random map generator?
Is it possible to chose a person at random to create the new game?

In my opinion, there is no best random map generators. The best map comes by a lucky chance .

 

[eyrei]

I don't really see any problem with doing this, however I don't want to be the one doing it. I tend to generate really bad maps. I think it would be fine if the next president does it though, as it will give us all a chance to see our nations capital in its infancy.

 

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by eyrei
I don't really see any problem with doing this, however I don't want to be the one doing it. I tend to generate really bad maps. I think it would be fine if the next president does it though, as it will give us all a chance to see our nations capital in its infancy.

Maybe we should ask Strider! He always seems to get some REALLY good starts! Me? I usually wind up with jungle and deserts - if not near by (no rivers, and my core cities are usually blocked by mountains to a fresh water source).

 

[Shaitan]

You guys do know it's random, right?

 

[disorganizer]

HELLLOOOO!
did someone notice we only talk about hitting the game setup?
as we know, no action is to be taken IN the game by the non-dp...
now where in the constitution is the point where the setup is brought in?
nowhere!
the game starts in the moment the map shows, and as it is saved then, no action is taken.
so nobody is taking anything away from anybody. thats what this poll is about and im now really fed up with most of those redicullous insulting posts in here.

this is a beurocratic nightmare, not a democracy any more.

 

[Cyc]

Hello, Dis. I thought you were the one with the nick-name "Mr. Bureaucracy". You know, speaking of insulting, that's kinda the way I felt when I read your three polls. Your proposals do take away the fundemental essence of the game creation for this forum. It might be fine for the succession games, or the GOTM, but we are not there. I'm sorry if you were insulted by my messages. I'm glad I got your attention, tho as I think you need to discuss and re-examine your proposals before you put them out on a poll. cya

 

[disorganizer]

They were discussed... Nobody seemed to have cared so they were polled at...
They take nothing away, as nothing is done except putting in the polled options and hitting enter.

EDIT:
i admit the discussion might have gone unnoticed as it was mostly spread betweed different threads.

but i see no insult in informational polling of an issue....
and as we only have 10 days left this is also an urgent issue.
if we spend the time discussing each point of this thourroughly, we will still discuss in 10 years.


EDIT2:
and we dont even need to change the rules as it is allowed according to them, as long as no in-game action is taken ;-)

 

[Cyc]

Dis, have you read anything I have posted about this? anything anyone else has posted about this? There is a lot more to this game than selecting options and pressing enter.

And the discussion you had with Shaitan was exactly like the ones you two had when you were shaping the games constitution and polling standards way back when. I followed you conversation and didn't agree with it. Then boom you throw out three polls because you're satisfied that we should like your idea. It doesn't work that way, Dis. This is an important part of the game that should have everyone's input. Not just Dis and Shaitan's.

 

[disorganizer]

So why didnt you post you opinion? Maybe that is the real problem. ***EDIT***


EDIT:
If we dont get enough input, we have to poll for citizens opinion.

 

[disorganizer]

Cyc:
is anything else there at the beginning?

1) all options are polled and decided by citizenry at the moment
2) you enter them in the game
3) you press enter to generate it
4) you save immediately

so where could anyone influence this? you have a special random generator in the game you want nobody else to share?

 

[Cyc]

Dis, what is your big fascination with getting this save done before hand? Why don't we do it as part of the turn-chat process? Why don't we get screen shots of the options chosen? Why don't we let the newly elected President do all this? OH, and BTW, there are 14 days until Sept. 1st.