Should western nations place tighter controls on immigration from Islamic countries?

[Shaihulud]

Yes, since most non-western countries already have it in place. I do know as well that it is extremely hard (relative to a non-muslim) for a muslim to get a visa into the United State and Australia, so I think that this suggestion is somewhat already implemented.

 

[Steph]

I am for more immigration controls.

Muslims who just arrive may not know our values and our way of life. They know only theirs.
I work with several muslims. When they manage to get a decent job, have money, and live with us and not beside us, few remain fundamentalists very long. They will want to go to night club, we will like to have a drink or a good meal. They will like to listen to our music, watch our movie, play our video games. They will westernize. And they can do so without losing their own culture, they will find a compromise. As all the previous immigration waves have done in the past. The society into which they arrived has shaped them, as they shaped a bit their new society.
I think it's positive when we learn new culture and take the best of each.

But to achieve this goal, we need first to succeed in three key points:
- First, we should not discriminate, and we should really give an economical change of success to imigrants. So they don't have to return to isolationism in ghetto where they are easy prey to fundamentalism, but can really aspire to become "like us"
- Second, we must regain confidence in our own culture and values, we need to be proud of them, and present them as a shining beacon for others to stear their little boat toward. But it's a difficult exercice, because we have to do it without hurting feelings, and without being to arrogant, or we would failed, for we would either be a corrupted goal or an ennemy instead of being anexample, or we may give the impression we are untouchable and make newcomers hopeless to reach their place beside us in our society. Currently, we are losing that because we don't put our values under a positive light, while the immigrants do (in their own mind).
- Third, we have to teach our values to immigrants. We have to help them learn our language so they can communicate with us. We have to teach them our laws and customs. Many immigrants don't respect them out of ignorance, not simply because they despise them. And there again, at least in France, we do to little in that regard for our immigrants.

We cannot have any radid uncontrolled immigration. We should use some kind of quota, to select immigrants who have the most chance to past through condition 1, finding a suitable place in our economy. Therefore, we should favorized the immigration of people with the skills needed for the jobs we lack, and try to limit the number of immigrants to a number our economy can manage to integrate.
Then they will adapt our values, for most of the people who immigrate here think they will come to a paradise of tolerance, good job and prosperity.

The strenght of Europe should reside in our hability to inspire, not in our capacity for hatred.

 

[shahreevar]

I am for more immigration controls.

Muslims who just arrive may not know our values and our way of life. They know only theirs.
I work with several muslims. When they manage to get a decent job, have money, and live with us and not beside us, few remain fundamentalists very long. They will want to go to night club, we will like to have a drink or a good meal. They will like to listen to our music, watch our movie, play our video games. They will westernize. And they can do so without losing their own culture, they will find a compromise. As all the previous immigration waves have done in the past. The society into which they arrived has shaped them, as they shaped a bit their new society.
I think it's positive when we learn new culture and take the best of each.

But to achieve this goal, we need first to succeed in three key points:
- First, we should not discriminate, and we should really give an economical change of success to imigrants. So they don't have to return to isolationism in ghetto where they are easy prey to fundamentalism, but can really aspire to become "like us"
- Second, we must regain confidence in our own culture and values, we need to be proud of them, and present them as a shining beacon for others to stear their little boat toward. But it's a difficult exercice, because we have to do it without hurting feelings, and without being to arrogant, or we would failed, for we would either be a corrupted goal or an ennemy instead of being anexample, or we may give the impression we are untouchable and make newcomers hopeless to reach their place beside us in our society. Currently, we are losing that because we don't put our values under a positive light, while the immigrants do (in their own mind).
- Third, we have to teach our values to immigrants. We have to help them learn our language so they can communicate with us. We have to teach them our laws and customs. Many immigrants don't respect them out of ignorance, not simply because they despise them. And there again, at least in France, we do to little in that regard for our immigrants.

We cannot have any radid uncontrolled immigration. We should use some kind of quota, to select immigrants who have the most chance to past through condition 1, finding a suitable place in our economy. Therefore, we should favorized the immigration of people with the skills needed for the jobs we lack, and try to limit the number of immigrants to a number our economy can manage to integrate.
Then they will adapt our values, for most of the people who immigrate here think they will come to a paradise of tolerance, good job and prosperity.

The strenght of Europe should reside in our hability to inspire, not in our capacity for hatred.

i applaude you good sir.

 

[Uiler]

I'm opposed. The reason is because it is akin to locking the barn door after the horse has already bolted. It's too late. There is already a massive Muslim population in European countries and they have a much much greater birth rate than the Christian population. Besides it seems to me the main problem is not so much with the 1st generation immigrants who just want to live quietly and work but the 2nd generation immigrants. I come from a Chinese immigrant family and if you think the 1st generation immigrants "assimilate" you've got another thing coming. My parents and most of their friends can still barely speak English and don't care much for the Aussie lifestyle and Western moralities.

However the 2nd generation Chinese immigrants assimilate very well into Western society. With the Muslim community the main problem seems to be the 2nd generation refuses or is unable to assimilate.

This is where most of the efforts should be targeted. The 2nd generation immigrants, especially the young males. And the "ringleaders" i.e. the immans spreading hateful messages.

I've seen comments that Europe should deport the whole lot. If that happens everything that modern Europe stands for will be destroyed. I find it hard to see how mass ethnically based deportations could ever occur unless Europe has changed so dramatically it resembles Hitler's Germany or Stalin's USSR or Mao's China more than the liberal democracy it is today. In the process it may rid itself of its "Muslim problem" but in the same process it will destroy its own soul. On economic and military grounds, America could have easily won in Vietnam, but the type of fighting it would have required (bombing the Vietnamese back to the stone age and obliterating the country) was completely repugnant to the American people.

 

[Winner]

I'm opposed. The reason is because it is akin to locking the barn door after the horse has already bolted. It's too late. There is already a massive Muslim population in European countries and they have a much much greater birth rate than the Christian population. Besides it seems to me the main problem is not so much with the 1st generation immigrants who just want to live quietly and work but the 2nd generation immigrants. I come from a Chinese immigrant family and if you think the 1st generation immigrants "assimilate" you've got another thing coming. My parents and most of their friends can still barely speak English and don't care much for the Aussie lifestyle and Western moralities.

However the 2nd generation Chinese immigrants assimilate very well into Western society. With the Muslim community the main problem seems to be the 2nd generation refuses or is unable to assimilate.

This is where most of the efforts should be targeted. The 2nd generation immigrants, especially the young males. And the "ringleaders" i.e. the immans spreading hateful messages.

You hit the nail on the head.

But: fresh immigrants are bringing "fresh" doses of their native culture with them. In other words, they make the cultural assimilation of the existing minority harder. That's another reason, why the immigration from muslim countries must end.
I am open for the immigration from other cultures though. From my personal experience, Ukrainians can assimilate in the 1st generation and Vietnamese in the 2nd. There have never been any serious problems with them and they are of huge advantage for us.

I've seen comments that Europe should deport the whole lot. If that happens everything that modern Europe stands for will be destroyed. I find it hard to see how mass ethnically based deportations could ever occur unless Europe has changed so dramatically it resembles Hitler's Germany or Stalin's USSR or Mao's China more than the liberal democracy it is today. In the process it may rid itself of its "Muslim problem" but in the same process it will destroy its own soul. On economic and military grounds, America could have easily won in Vietnam, but the type of fighting it would have required (bombing the Vietnamese back to the stone age and obliterating the country) was completely repugnant to the American people.

We should deport illegal immigrants and those, who are refusing to assimilate or (worse), promote hatred and violence. It is the only way how to remain in control of immigration.

 

[Mirc]

The western nations should definitely place tighter controls on immigration from Islamic countries.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Yes. But the first thing to do is to ban all immigration from Christian Countries because in the last 15 years, the only two cases of Crime Against Humanity charges were set againt Christians from Yougouslavia and Rwanda

 

[ComradeDavo]

I beleve there should be a tighter and more restrictive control on immigration from Islamic countries since apperently the 1st and 2nd genration immigrants from the Islamic countries have not grasp the concept of Democracy and freedom of speach as well as freedom of religion.

I find this most hypocritical. The catholic church and other fundamentalist Christians, especially in the USA, try and restrict people's rights on abortion, gay marriage and such issues, and I know you support this. That is not freedom of religion, that is enforcement of religion.

Take for example the issue of the 'Jerry Springer Opera' - recently due to pressure from Christian groups this was banned from sale by 2 major British stores. That is NOT freedom of speach.

I know that such cencorship happens reguarly across the Western world.

So maybe you and your hardline Christian colleagues should embrace free speach and free religion before you tell others to.

 

[Winner]

I find this most hypocritical. The catholic church and other fundamentalist Christians, especially in the USA, try and restrict people's rights on abortion, gay marriage and such issues, and I know you support this. That is not freedom of religion, that is enforcement of religion.

Take for example the issue of the 'Jerry Springer Opera' - recently due to pressure from Christian groups this was banned from sale by 2 major British stores. That is NOT freedom of speach.

I know that such cencorship happens reguarly across the Western world.

So maybe you and your hardline Christian colleagues should embrace free speach and free religion before you tell others to.

As much as I despise Christian radicalism, I also understand that it is still a pure liberalism compared with what some Muslim groups are doing. Christians, even those radical ones, only occasionally use violence and it is usually a matter of individuals. Muslim violence is, on the other hand, well organized and supported by many people.

 

[ComradeDavo]

As much as I despise Christian radicalism, I also understand that it is still a pure liberalism compared with what some Muslim groups are doing. Christians, even those radical ones, only occasionally use violence and it is usually a matter of individuals. Muslim violence is, on the other hand, well organized and supported by many people.

I disagree. Northern Ireland demonstrates how Christians can be violent, in that case against each other. It just takes a catalyst.

And personally, I see setting fire to abortion clinics and killing doctors who perform abortions as pretty damn violent. I know it's a minority who do that, just like it's a minority of Islamists who turn to violence.

 

[HannibalBarka]

... We should deport illegal immigrants and those, who are refusing to assimilate or (worse), promote hatred and violence. It is the only way how to remain in control of immigration....

Great solution Winner boy. So I am telling you, you either stop "propomting hatred" against Gypsies and muslims or we are going to deport you

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Should western nations place tighter controls on immigration from Islamic countries?

Hmmm, gee, I dont know, let me think about it for a second...

Four people have died in violent protests against cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad, following more than a week of demonstrations.

Three people died after police in Afghanistan fired on protesters when a police station came under attack, a government spokesman said.

In Somalia, a 14-year-old boy was shot dead and several others were injured after protesters attacked the police.

Further protests have been taking place from Gaza to India, Indonesia and Iran.

They follow attacks on Danish embassies in Syria and Lebanon over the weekend. The cartoons were first published in a Danish newspaper.

Monday's deaths were thought to be the first, but officials in Lebanon have now confirmed that a demonstrator died on Sunday after jumping from the third floor of the Danish embassy in Beirut to escape a fire.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4684652.stm

 

[Gelion]

Great solution Winner boy. So I am telling you, you either stop "propomting hatred" against Gypsies and muslims or we are going to deport you

As a full blooded European and a member of the al mighty Aryan Race I support this



In my view controls on immigration would not do any good. Just look at what happens at the Mexican border. No borders have ever stopped people who want to leave or come. The best "hope" the "West" has is to naturalise the new comers with massive educational and cultural programs. Reduced racism helps quite a bit. Fighting fire with fire only increases the hatred.

Encore if the West stands for globalization - good way of proving it is not putting extra restrictions. If not then well not.

 

[silver 2039]

By assimilate I hope you don't expect them to give up their culture, beliefs, religon, and values because that quite frankly is ridiculous. They should integrate with the rest of the society BUT NOT assimilate.

 

[Winner]

In my view controls on immigration would not do any good. Just look at what happens at the Mexican border. No borders have stopped people who want to leave or come.

Well, you know, I don't know if it is still there, but last time I checked there was the Miditerranean sea between Europe and North Africa...

 

[Reno]

There should be more tighter checkup's on who is let in (also restrictions)*, but there shouldn't be a complete stop on the immigration, since it's most obvious that that is impossible. Increased social spending on educational projects and the like would be needed to reduce racism and separation on both sides.

* The most radical ones will simply not be let in as immigrants if possible.

 

[Gelion]

Well, you know, I don't know if it is still there, but last time I checked there was the Miditerranean sea between Europe and North Africa...

There are things called boats. Also there's a thing called Eurasia that is you know sort of well connected

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Well, you know, I don't know if it is still there, but last time I checked there was the Miditerranean sea between Europe and North Africa...

Sea doesnt stop immigration, it kills an percentage of inmigrants but that does not dissuade them in any way. Look at the Staright of Gibraltar: it is only 14 km wide in the narrowest point so it was the preferred point to reach Europe from North Africa. Some years ago Spain installed a lot of radars and IR cameras there, so today no boat can cross the straight inadvertently. Has migration stopped since then? No, now immigrants overloaded boats go around in a much longer course to avoid the Gibraltar Straight, landing in distant points of the Spanish coast or going to the Canary Island. The rate of deaths is higher since the new longer routes are much more dangerous but they keep coming.

 

[silver 2039]

There are things called boats. Also there's a thing called Eurasia that is you know sort of well connected

Morrocoans regular swim across the Straits of Gibralter. Some Africans even smuggled onto a plane (wheel flaps) heading to France and froze to death inside.

 

[Winner]

There are things called boats. Also there's a thing called Eurasia that is you know sort of well connected

Well, you know, these boats can be easily stopped. Muslims are coming to Europe mainly across the Mediterranean. Our water boundary makes it easier to curb the immigrantion, the only thing we need is will to do so.