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should whipped units start w/ experience?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by el toro loco, Dec 7, 2011.

  1. el toro loco

    el toro loco Warlord

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    these units are built in a single day and the local populace is shrunk to one in many cases against ai. it doesn't seem right that every single unit that is produced has more experience than my battle experienced, barrack produced units. especially w/ civs that give archers double experience to start. add a barrack and a hill and you have a ton of early game nightmares to tackle.

    historically and realistically this is way off.
     
  2. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    Well, it can be that what happened is that all the equipment is made by slave labor, not that the actual training is sped up.

    Besides - in the general whipping time, each turn is in years, not days.
     
  3. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Yep, for those people that are coerced to fight in the military, that's drafting and they do start with less experience.
     
  4. TheWilltoAct

    TheWilltoAct I am observe

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    I have no idea why the AI is building units which, out of the gate, have more experience than your hardened military? At any rate that might speak more to your own military shortcomings than whipping per se.
     
  5. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    Actually, YOU'RE the one that's historically and realistically way off. Pay attention to the time that passes on each turn... If we were going by days, you'd never complete a civ game in a lifetime, even if you're one of those self-proclaimed experts that loses his capital in 3000 BC.

    Next question you're going to ask now, is why are SLAVED soldiers at full health out of the gate ...
     
  6. el toro loco

    el toro loco Warlord

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    honestly, i admit i'm not a very good player. i'm not really talking about my skill level but more about the realism of pumping out 3 to 4 star units from slavery. especially in the bc era. i might have an warrior from the beginning of the game promoted to an axeman w/ archer, city attack and two combat that w/ still struggle against protective archer, barracks, on a hill. by the time i declare war and cross cultural boundary, computer will have slaved 3 to 4 3/4 star units waiting.
     
  7. el toro loco

    el toro loco Warlord

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    while i'm at it, why do cities that you recently take over starve themselves to death to show their unhapiness. "i'll show you my unhappiness by being so unhappy that i kill myself"

    also talking about realism. so it take me 50 times longer to produce a experienced unit as it does to produce a slave unit of the same worth....
     
  8. ecuwins

    ecuwins Emperor

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    They don't have enough food to feed all of the non-productive unhappy citizens. It is always in your best interest to whip these fools away ASAP. Get the city down below its happy cap, this reduces civic maintenance as well.
     
  9. TheWilltoAct

    TheWilltoAct I am observe

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    I think most of us struggle against those hilltop strongholds. ;)

    The only way the computer should be able to produce highly promoted units in the BC's, would be with the assistance of a Great General and likely a military Civic.

    It's safe to say that going to war in the early era's can be frustrating; and without siege, nigh impossible.
     
  10. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    Then why not use your GG to SPREAD experience to your STANDING ARMY, instead of settling him in your city to only aid the whipped units?

    As mentioned, it seems you are doing something VERY wrong. I'm guessing you built a big STANDING ARMY and didn't even use a barracks until you started whipping?

    Something doesn't quite add up from what you are telling us...

    Your barracks counts as a military schooling in certain ways, so who cares if your units are whipped from it, they still got their schooling before hitting the fields.
     
  11. lordmacroer

    lordmacroer Warlord

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    definatly a downfail on the developer's fault imo. Yes it makes game sense that newly captured cities decrease in size, however from a realism standpoint it does not make sense that all these laborurs would suddenly stop producing food for themselves and essentially commit suicide, just because they town changed to a new leadership who is likley just going to let them keep being farmers for the rest of their lives anyway, maybe become a scientist if they are lucky.


    it definatly would take longer to train an elite soldier than to produce a bunch of swords but its a good guess. they should of at least made it so rushed units lose a promotion or something
     
  12. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    They do lose exp when DRAFTED.
     
  13. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    Except, of course, that chaos always takes over in a situation like that.

    Some of the laborers got dead in the fighting. Some joined the resistance. Some got taken away for being suspected of being in the resistance. The resistance disrupted supply lines. The battle destroyed food supplies. the winners looted food supplies.

    there's lots of reasons for food shortages after a city is taken.
     
  14. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Chain whipping has saved some of my cities, so I'll keep it as that, fine thank you. Realism be damned. :p

    They may not kill themselves, but I'm sure war has caused a lot of starvation issues when the city infrastructure is crippled and there's too many people. They simply can't return to their daily lives that easily. I'm sure the Mongols caused many pop drops.

    It doesn't. Slow building a unit has the same experience as whipping one. How would it take 50 times longer? 50 turns to build mech infantry would be an unacceptable build time even on marathon.

    Also, the enemy might be fielding all those promotions because you are giving them great generals. =p

    Anyhow the "realism" is shown in drafting. Don't take it literally. I mean how does chopping down a Forrest translate to having spaceships and tanks?
     
  15. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Hum hum...
    Using shift + enter to end a turn requires about 5 seconds on a fast computer.
    5 seconds is 1/ 17000 of a day.
    Getting from 4000 BC to 3000 BC would require 1/17 of a year when you are playing 24/24.

    Anyway, about those whipping times... they are quite unrealistic. 40 years to get troops ready? They should be old men by then.
     
  16. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    For instance, Baghdad, where they killed somewhere between 10K and 1M people ;)
     
  17. TheWilltoAct

    TheWilltoAct I am observe

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    :confused:

    This is nonsense...

    Five second turns during the quickest time block of the game would take minutes, which was obsolete's point.
     
  18. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    I'm not even sure if that even deserves an emoticon. ;)

    Then again, they certainly loved to hit the raze button too so...
     
  19. Sir Spanky

    Sir Spanky Chieftain

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    Also, depending on the Civ, some units start with promotions. Like Sumerian Archers start with 2 promotions out of the gate, then ad exp KaBoom, 4 promotions when popped ready to defend.
     
  20. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    You know - sometimes you put in an emoticon thinking it means one thing and then you realize that it looks like you are winking at the death of 500K people. Yikes.
     

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