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Shutting Down the Government

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Berzerker, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

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    The House voted 230-197 to pass the CR bill to keep the government funded for a few more weeks... Republicans overwhelmingly voted to pass the bill, Democrats overwhelmingly against it. Now it goes to the Senate where the vote will be close... So what does the media tell us? Republicans are to blame if the bill fails.

    Huh? How does that work? The Democrats voted against the bill, not the GOP. Tell me how I'm misinterpreting this vote, please. I'm at a loss to understand how voting to keep the govt funded is a vote to shut it down.

    Apparently Democrats oppose funding the govt because it doesn't a include a DACA provision. Okay, I can understand why they're voting against the funding, but why is the media telling us the GOP is to blame if the bill doesn't pass the Senate? Is there something I'm missing or is this the fake media lying to us again?
     
  2. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo https://thespacecadetblog.com/

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    Voting against a bill is not the same as voting to shut down the government as you noted I think.

    In any case the Republicans have manuevered to put in the bill the only bargaining chip they can play to get Democrats to support it - children's health insurance.

    The Republicans want to pass that too - badly - and by putting it in the bill with a 6 year fix, the Democrats will have nothing to bargain with to get a DACA fix. Against a party that stole a SCOTUS nomination and have otherwise corrupted the normal workings of government to their own ends, why would the Democrats give up one of their only available bargaining chip?

    And that the Republicans would structure this bill to purposefully set up a game of chicken with the federal government is shameful and entirely their own fault. Whatever happens next, they set the dinner table.
     
  3. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    The Republican leadership, when they got their last "if you give us a short term funding bill we will bring the budget to the floor for debate" passed promptly reneged on the deal. Instead they waited until five days before the deadline and brought a "screw the majority of Americans and the democrats who represent them, this is it and there's no time for debate" atrocity to the floor. That's what happened, and no amount of "well, they did it" finger pointing by D'ump can change that.

    The thirty odd percent who support D'ump anyway will believe him, and with him as their spokesman the GOP will be facing a huge majority of Americans who just chalk that up as yet another bald faced lie and flatly and fairly blame them.
     
    hobbsyoyo likes this.
  4. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

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    The deadline for funding the govt is tomorrow... If it doesn't pass the Senate - and it'll be because Democrats didn't vote for it - the government will be shut down from what I understand. But the media is portraying this as the GOP's fault. That does not compute...

    Those are all good reasons for the Democrats to oppose the CR bill, but it aint the GOP thats voting against the bill. I know both parties play these games where they load stuff they want into a bill and blame the other side for opposing it, but its illogical to say the GOP is voting to shut down the govt. My problem is the media's spin... Why dont they just tell us the Democrats oppose it for the following reasons instead of telling us the Republicans want to shut down the govt?
     
  5. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Because it is the Republicans that want to shut down the government...as long as they can blame it on the Democrats. That isn't spin, it's just a fact. They control what came to the floor, and they made sure to bring something to the floor that they knew the Democrats won't vote for. If the Republicans didn't want to shut down the government we wouldn't even be in the neighborhood of shutting down the government.
     
  6. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo https://thespacecadetblog.com/

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    The Republicans set up a no-win situation for the Democrats to remove their leverage in DACA negotiations. They would rather use children's health care as bait and risk a government shut down than allow just a couple dozen of their own members to vote for DACA.

    They know the Democrats could pass DACA because their own coalition is crap and can't come together. There would be enough defections to pass it so they won't even let it come to a vote. So intead of playing the game they flip the table over like children and blame the Democrats.

    That Fox news and the alt-right propaganda machine agree with them means nothing. That the entire rest of the media doesn't should be a clue as to what the truth of the matter is.
     
  7. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Problem SOLVED !
    Just have GOP vote on its own CR, without any Democrat votes just like they did with that shaddy tax cut bill.
     
  8. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    They can only do that if it is a pure taxation and spending bill, otherwise they need sixty votes in the senate. They can't authorize spending on a wall that hasn't been authorized, unless they include that authorization at the same time, which takes it out of "pure" so they have to have democrats. If they don't include authorization and funding for the wall to keep it pure and get it through on their own there is little certainty that "their guy" in the White House wouldn't shut down the government anyway and blame the "GOP establishment" for it.
     
  9. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Cant the GOP just pass a "clean" CR
    then lets see if Trump will carry out hes threat to Veto it because it dosnt have Wall funding that the US is paying for ?
     
  10. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    Because the GOP controls the Senate.
     
  11. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

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    The GOP is voting for the bill
     
  12. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    What medium is telling you this? I watch a lot of the media. I ping-pong back and forth from MSNBC through CNN to Fox and back lots of evenings, including last evening, when all of this was being discussed.

    They took up the question of who the American people would blame if the government shut down (a poll says 43% will blame R, 34% D). But I didn't hear anyone flatly say that Republicans will be to blame.

    Here's why I see Republicans as being fundamentally to blame for this. Congress has an obligation to pass a budget. The R's have been shirking that responsibility and some of the political challenges that come along with it by only funding the government for a month at a time through continuing resolutions. The Democrats are just saying "enough is enough"; we're not signing on to another one of these stop-gap plans when there are issues that, with some level of urgency, need addressing (DACA especially).

    By the way, one factoid from yesterday's viewing that perhaps bears on this question of where blame should settle, is that the government has never previously shut down when one party controls the White House and both branches of Congress.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  13. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

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    If the government is shut down it will be the senate's fault. Simple. The House passed it.
     
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  14. uppi

    uppi Chieftain

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    They would vote against any bill proposed by the Democrats, so what is the value of that statement? It is the responsibility of the majority party to come up with a bill that passes. If the proposals of the Democrats are not even put to a vote, how exactly are they supposed to prevent government shutdown? Surrender to the only proposal the Republicans will make?
     
  15. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    No bill has been brought to a vote in the Senate. The GOP controls the Senate and decides when to bring bills to a vote. Therefore the GOP is responsible for no bill being voted on in the Senate.

    I can't believe this needs pointing out, but the House and Senate are different things.
     
  16. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

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    Just about the entire MSNBC line up is blaming the GOP

    A poll of people being bombarded with "the GOP is threatening to shut down the govt" doesn't impress me, I look at the vote totals and the Democrats are voting against the CR bill.

    You're explaining why the Democrats oppose the bill and the bill funds the govt.

    By voting for it

    Did someone argue the House and Senate are not different? The House just passed the bill, now its the Senate's turn. None of that changes the fact the Democrats in the House overwhelmingly opposed the bill. Telling me why they opposed it is irrelevant to the accusation the GOP is trying to shut down the govt.
     
  17. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    But all's well. The great dealmaker himself is getting involved. Trump and Schumer are about to have a sit-down and settle the whole thing.
     
  18. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

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    Trump wants his wall and the Dems want Dreamer protection
     
  19. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    If it is just the two of them, then it is likely that Trump will tweet that Daca should be part of the bill and the wall will be paid for by Mexico.
     
  20. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    Schumer will announce that Trump and he agreed that DACA children should be made citizens. Trump will say he made no such agreement, that was just one of the ideas discussed. Trump will say, "See, I tried as hard as I could to work with Democrats; they are just obstructionist on this matter"
     

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