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Sidar Super Scouts

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Strategy & Tips' started by Econian, Dec 1, 2009.

  1. Econian

    Econian Chieftain

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    Tallahassee, FL
    Sidar Super Scouts

    Not sure if this qualifies as an exploit, but the Sidar world spell, Into the Mist, gives all of your units a one-shot super invisibility with the hidden promotion. Even creatures that can normally see invisible, like spiders, can't see you. Not sure if this is a wildmana issue since the ability is unchanged from base Ffh. I have not tested base Ffh to see if this works.

    This might be considered an exploit because at the beginning of the game you can use Into the Mist to make all of your current units invisible. Depending on how many units you have built when animals and barbs start to show up, you will have 3-5 super scouts. This is AMAZING :crazyeye: because you can go around and pick up another 10+ goody huts with impunity. Pick up a couple of techs, 200+ gold, experience, etc. As long as the only thing you do is pick up goody huts, you keep your invisibility. If you explore a ruins, use an ability or attack anything, it's gone. This ability is most useful on the largest maps where you have the most goody huts and the most untamed wilderness.

    Normally, Into the Mist sucks, you can't even enter into someone else's borders while invisible without triggering war. But using it this way, you can get way ahead by popping techs and gathering gold. I never used the worldspell before, but now it's awesome....maybe a little too awesome.

    A possible fix would be to allow spiders to attack hidden. Shouldn't spiders be able to see hidden anyway? This would balance the ability without nerfing it too much. You could still run around picking up goody huts until your first battle with a spider.
     
  2. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

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    Well, like Sandalphon's leader text goes "you must have had keen eyes to spot the Grey, for many times we have walked though your land, unnoticed".
     
  3. Emptiness

    Emptiness []

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    Hidden and Invisibility are two different things. Spiders, for example, are Hidden. Scouts, and other Spiders for that matter, can see them. Invisible units cannot be seen by Spiders or Scouts, and this is intended.

    The invisibility granted by Into the Mists is just normal invisibility, not some sort of super invisibility. Hawks and Perfect Sight, to name two examples, will reveal Sidar units made invisible by their world spell.
     
  4. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    There are different types of invisibility. Spiders are INVISIBLE_ANIMAL, a type of invisibility that other spiders an most recon units can see. The Invisible and Hidden promotions give INVISIBLE_LAND, which the Perfect Sight lets units see (in FfH this is the only invisibility promotions can let units see). I think Nox Noctis uses INVISIBLE_ALL, which nothing an see. (I tend to think that the Empyrean Revelation spell should make such units visible.) BtS also had INVISIBLE_SEA, used for submarines. I think Krakens had this before Kael removed it.


    I personally like moving the Nox Noctis invisibility to the Sidar Palace, but can only really make that work when using FF as a base, and its invisibility works a bit differently (promotions can allow units to see any, and multiple, types of invisibility). (I'm not a fan of many world spells, so they'd probably loose Into the Mist to get this.)
     
  5. odalrick

    odalrick Emperor

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    I find two or three invisible workers more useful. They can build improvements without any protection, even make roads to city expansion sites which can quarter the time a settler has to be in the wild.

    But I play on small maps so there aren't many goody huts to claim.
     
  6. JonathanStrange

    JonathanStrange PrinceWithA1000Enemies

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    The few times I've played the Sidar (less than a dozen times) I too have found having early invisible scouts useful, real useful. Again though, I've not played the Sidar enough to feel confident that's the best use of the World Spell - it is a WORLD spell after all and using it when I really have only a few units that can benefit from it feels extravagant. Still, like the OP said, on big maps with plenty of goody huts to go after and lots of terrain to explore, it seems worthwhile.

    The invisible workers are amusing too; imagine a Clan raiding party muttering among themselves, "Hey, I could've sworn I heard some woodchopping and hammering".
     
  7. mcwill123

    mcwill123 Pretender to the Throne

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    I tried this last night with 4 scouts. They were invisible to animals, but other humans attacked and killed 3 of them on sight. I think the 4th was attacked and killed by a lizardman. I believe I was able to gain one tech and (I think) one "villagers give you gold". Thats it. Needless to say I was not impressed.:(
     
  8. Econian

    Econian Chieftain

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    Free workers for the Sidar

    Another optimal time to use the Sidar world spell is early in the game after you discover another civ's workers. Use your starting scout and warrior to scout out unguarded workers and snag one or two. Then use Into the Mists to turn your guys invisible. Your new worker can now get back to your starting city unmolested, you don't even need to guard him!

    Your invisible worker can trailblaze the wilderness for you or scout with impunity. The loss of a starting worker can really set a rival civ back quite a bit and boost you up. You won't need to slow down your growth by building a worker.

    You can continue exploring with your invisible units who will pop all the goody huts and establish contact with everyone on the map.
     

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