Sidar survival challenge- winnable?

[cIV_khanh93]

Well, my firend and i were thinking about how cool the sidar waning is, and i wondered if teh Sidar could win an OCC deity always war game. I haven't yet tried it because i need to reistall BtS, but I'm wondering if anyone has, and if so, some tips? I'd imagine that workeres would be rather unimportant after the inital stages. Also, would CoE be the preferred religion? Nox Noctis would be helpful i would imagine. When to wane lvl 6's? Do i build up a sizable to task force to wear down stacks for my newbies first, or do i just use the increased amount of great specialists to increase the size of my green army? Also, what shold the wane order be? I was thinking bard->engineers until you can one turn new units->sages for new techs (->more engineers if the new units get too expensive) would merchants fit in? maybe for rushing or uprading? Or is there some flaw in this I was overlooking?

 

[Zechnophobe]

If you turn on raging barbarians, always war, and play Deity, it is actually hard NOT to win with the Sidar ;P.

 

[odalrick]

Go Order and spam their priests. Your regular population should work on prophets for the altar.

Always attack with the priests. If they win, great; they just got a lot of experience. If they lose, great; someone else just got a lot of experience.

 

[WarKirby]

Sidar
OCC
always war
raging barbs
Deity.

That sounds so awesome. I have to try it.

Wouldn't it be pretty impossible to keep your improvements? They'd get destroyed constantly...
Would it be fair to use the worldbuilder to make yourself a perfect city site?

 

[Zechnophobe]

It is yeah. Actually winning turns out to be harder than I thought actually, since you can't keep any territory, and, literally, barbarian cities will pop up in your wake cutting your line of troops. Very weird.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

I would think getting hit from multiple directions by those big, promoted stacks deity AIs field would tend to, you know, kill you before you could start waning and really setting up.

 

[Demus]

i've won those games a fair few times tbh . You still rely on a good starting location though (read: on a hill, with a river nearby, not that much forests so you can attack them, but they can't attack you). I usually go RoK -> poisons -> CoE, invis assassins ftw. Magic could also work, not sure about that one. Get rathus up to lvl 15, free brigit, start razing cities.

About surviving: in the beginning, the scouts and warriors you get thrown your way are repelled by your own warriors (kill other warriors while fortified in your city, do charges on scouts and goblins), by the time the AI starts to field T2 units you should be closing in on soldiers of kilmorph and bambur. Get the mines for iron wielding soldiers, and you should be OK for quite a while.

 

[renardargent]

Sidar OCC and self OCC (meaning no OCC option checked) was popular in my native forum for a while ago.
It seems having palisades/walls, archers/longbowmen, iron from Galdur, FOL priests for tigers (to protect shades from assassins), ancient forests, and of course flood plains help a lot (since basically, keeping improvements are almost impossible).
Also, it seems some people were casting world spells in the first turn, to make the first settler invisible and thus enabling adventure for the best land plot.
According to the picture of the guy who wrote a playing diary, he had 64 GS, 18 GM, and 14 GE settled in his city, and producing 1522 beakers, 701 hammers, 211 cash, and 41 foods from his only city around the last turn.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

About surviving: in the beginning, the scouts and warriors you get thrown your way are repelled by your own warriors (kill other warriors while fortified in your city, do charges on scouts and goblins)

Ah, right...

I'm used to deity AI's not declaring until they have bronze working. If they're at war with you from turn 1 they'll feed you experience with units your basic warriors can beat, and... yeah, I see how it is.

 

[Diamondeye]

I'll definately have to try this

 

[DioBrando]

Sidar
OCC
always war
raging barbs
Deity.

That sounds so awesome. I have to try it.

Wouldn't it be pretty impossible to keep your improvements? They'd get destroyed constantly...
Would it be fair to use the worldbuilder to make yourself a perfect city site?

Maginot line. Preferably with one opening, to keep the barbs interested. Works very well since you will get wanes in no time, and it isn't that hard to do with one city. Most units you'll need is 2x(4x4)+8=40. 40 units. A perfectly good investment, because those 40 units will probably become at least 20 great people in the next 100 turns.

 

[cIV_khanh93]

Sidar OCC and self OCC (meaning no OCC option checked) was popular in my native forum for a while ago.
It seems having palisades/walls, archers/longbowmen, iron from Galdur, FOL priests for tigers (to protect shades from assassins), ancient forests, and of course flood plains help a lot (since basically, keeping improvements are almost impossible).
Also, it seems some people were casting world spells in the first turn, to make the first settler invisible and thus enabling adventure for the best land plot.
According to the picture of the guy who wrote a playing diary, he had 64 GS, 18 GM, and 14 GE settled in his city, and producing 1522 beakers, 701 hammers, 211 cash, and 41 foods from his only city around the last turn.

I guess I'll try this once BtS is done reinstalling

 

[Kenjister]

Maybe we should set up a challenge and see who can beat a game like this the fastest (or stay alive the longest)... It sounds fun and I'll bet that there would be tons of players!
Challenges are always fun to play. The really spice up the game.

 

[cIV_khanh93]

Maybe. Why dont you just generate a map and save it?

 

[Kenjister]

I don't know... I'm not much good with deciding what would be a suitable map to play on. Maybe I'll fiddle around abit and see what settings would be good. Plus I bet everyone's just playing it on a random map right now. The AI managing to build Rosier the turn after founding the AV is just plain scary

 

[cIV_khanh93]

I don't know... I'm not much good with deciding what would be a suitable map to play on. Maybe I'll fiddle around abit and see what settings would be good. Plus I bet everyone's just playing it on a random map right now. The AI managing to build Rosier the turn after founding the AV is just plain scary

!!!!!!!! how much discount does deity give? if its 50% then i guess thats reasonable, rosier only costs 180 hammers. A really nice god king capital could get 90 hammers a turn, also theres rushing and/or overflow stufff that coulda happened.

 

[Kenjister]

This is one cruel, cruel challenge... I think how well you do largely depends on if you can make it to archery before the stacks show up. That and if the AI axemen have bronze weapons.

And I really, really, really hope the Rosier thing was just form overflow, cause if it wasn't, I really don't want to be up against that production powerhouse!

 

[cIV_khanh93]

well, mining->archery... but still, it is a gamble. Im trying to come up with something. i guess gal-dur would really do it, but its still al ot of tech, im not sure how long warriors can do it. I guess it REALLY depends on if you can get a nice supply of defensive guerillas.(by farming barbs) and any build order besides ALT warrior or worker->warriors (if you have gold that you tihnk you can defend) would be absurd. I wish i could play right now!! argh!!

 

[Kenjister]

In my current game, I got a largish peninsula to start in. No choke points mind you, but at least only one general direction I could be attacked from. I didn't scout out, so I only had two AI's against me, and I make it to Archery pretty easily. I then got RoK and started to build a "Magniot Line" in the hills that I was surrounded in. And just like in real life, my Magniot Line never was complete enough to ward off the AI attacks. When one stack got around and won a freak battle vs. Bambur, I gave up. It was around turn 200 or so.

Still, Archers promoted down the drill line a force to be reckoned with, and if I had more production and finished my line. I could of withstood the AI for alot longer, especially given that I had some nice cottages going in the safe area.

 

[Demus]

i still recon archery is a waste of hammers early on, go bronze working instead (expecially if you've got a shot at keeping bronze hooked up, or if you've got the mines running). I just started an OCC, and got 2 wanes by turn 35 (1 GS 1 GE). I was using raging barbs with a barbarian AI opponent though, so i was having fights litteraly every single turn from turn 6 onwards. So yeah, arete early is definately doable (you should have bambur + your first soldiers by the time the T2 units start to get spammed)