Siege tower?

[rschissler]

So, the siege tower bonus of bypassing walls, is only for melee units? Cavalry won't work with it?

 

[Shorlin]

Melee in regard to siege towers refers to any non-ranged attack unit, including cavalry.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

Melee in regard to siege towers refers to any non-ranged attack unit, including cavalry.

A decision made for heightened realism.

By the way, can siege towers negate later walls - Renaissance or public defense?

 

[craney1987]

yes they can. It always weirds me out when a siege tower can help a tank unit avoid walls.

though by then they are totally impractical and slow etc.. But the fact it cam happen...

 

[rschissler]

Look at these captures and tell me what I am missing?

 

[Jaybe]

Your siege tower has to be adjacent to the city.

 

[rschissler]

Your siege tower has to be adjacent to the city.

It is.

 

[craney1987]

It is.

in the pic it is two tiles away

 

[Browd]

There is another siege tower in a tile adjacent to the city center (it is faded out, but visible).

 

[craney1987]

ahh sorry I didn't see it. Does the river have something to do with it not working?

 

[Tacgnol]

The bonus from siege towers doesn't directly boost combat, because part of the combat hits the walls and part hits the city itself. So you won't see a direct boost, but you'll notice the attack will take out a sizable chunk of the city's HP in addition to the wall's health, it's only that portion of the attack that benefits. Similarly I'm not sure if battering rams show a strength boost but they only increase the part of the attack that hits the walls or outer defenses, not the part that hits city HP.

 

[Maximo the Xth]

Remove the tower and you will see a big difference.

 

[rschissler]

Still wondering about this. I did a test attacking the city, one with the Cossack/siege tower and one without. The Garrison Health and Fortification Health numbers after the attack came out the same.

 

[Leyrann]

You can see that the expected damage is about a third of the city's health. This is the damage you should expect with this strength difference against an unwalled city (over 60 damage, about equal to some 15-20 strength difference, now checking back (didn't remember the numbers) and it's indeed 21 strength difference). If there was no siege unit adjacent, you'd deal the damage to walls that's shown and probably some 3-5 damage to the city itself.

 

[rschissler]

You can see that the expected damage is about a third of the city's health. This is the damage you should expect with this strength difference against an unwalled city (over 60 damage, about equal to some 15-20 strength difference, now checking back (didn't remember the numbers) and it's indeed 21 strength difference). If there was no siege unit adjacent, you'd deal the damage to walls that's shown and probably some 3-5 damage to the city itself.

Ok, but where is the visual of that? If it isn't the Garrison Defense Strength, not the Garrison Health, not the Fortification Health, and nothing to do with the Minor/Major Victory/Defeat/Stalemate popup, where is it?

 

[Leyrann]

Ok, but where is the visual of that? If it isn't the Garrison Defense Strength, not the Garrison Health, not the Fortification Health, and nothing to do with the Minor/Major Victory/Defeat/Stalemate popup, where is it?

You can see the Garrison Health (the yellow part of the bar) taking a lot of damage. A garrison has 200 base health, it takes about a third. Walls reduce this damage by a lot, so much that, if you had no siege tower, you'd barely be able to see the damage the Garrison took. When fighting without a siege tower, the damage you deal to the city itself gradually increases as you deal more and more damage to the walls.

 

[rschissler]

Ok, I think I just figured it out. I was under the (false) impression that not only did the siege tower have to be on an adjacent tile next to a city, but also that the attacking unit had to be on the same tile as the siege tower. Apparently, any attacking unit on other tiles can benefit from a single siege tower that is next to the city. It doesn't matter if an attacking unit occupies the same tile as the siege tower or not, and only one siege tower is needed per city.

 

[Leyrann]

Ok, I think I just figured it out. I was under the (false) impression that not only did the siege tower have to be on an adjacent tile next to a city, but also that the attacking unit had to be on the same tile as the siege tower. Apparently, any attacking unit on other tiles can benefit from a single siege tower that is next to the city. It doesn't matter if an attacking unit occupies the same tile as the siege tower or not, and only one siege tower is needed per city.

Yes, that is correct.

 

[Furycrab]

yes they can. It always weirds me out when a siege tower can help a tank unit avoid walls.

though by then they are totally impractical and slow etc.. But the fact it cam happen...

Mid to late game siege needs a rework. It's one thing for the game to tell you that you don't need walls sometime around gunpowder, it's another problem where you still need/want these classical support units well into Modern because your melee units only do 5-10 damage to fortifications even with a 25+ combat advantage. Hurts the pacing of war in the mid game, and makes it almost useless to overrun a position with melee units, which makes it almost impossible for an AI to convert it's mid to late game production into something that threatens your cities.

I found it somewhat stupid that I needed to drag around a Ram to make my Winged Hussars capable of knocking down cities and encampments at a reasonable pace.

 

[masda_gib]

This is how I imagine siege towers work with tanks:
http://www.gifbin.com/bin/032012/1332872226_hot_wheels_world_record_jump__332_feet.gif