1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Siege Warfare

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by trexeric, May 27, 2011.

  1. trexeric

    trexeric (or backwards 'cirexert')

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,522
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Does anyone use siege weapons in warfare? I don't. My opinion is that siege weapons are a waste of production. A bigger army beats a smaller army, right? I'll only use siege tactics if I have to capture a city that has walls, a castle, and great defense. I never built trebuchets. I usually just use catapults or wait until cannons. For some reason, I don't go to war in the trebuchet age.One thing I do do in siege warfare is reducing the defenses from the sea with ships. What are your opinions on siege warfare in RFC?
     
  2. Wessel V1

    Wessel V1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,417
    Location:
    Nijmegen
    Siege units in RFC are relatively weak compared to those in other mods because warfare is quick, cities are close (Blitz opportunities) and plagues reduce troop amounts. Nevertheless they can be a handy tool, because the turns lost in a siege are regained by a higher chance of unit survival which indirectly means less time to train reinforcements. They are very usefull too if you are behind in tech, for example as the Aztecs. But generally I don't see them as powerful as they are in for example RFCE.
     
  3. rock_star

    rock_star Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    Columbus OH
    I often use spies to support a city revolt. Defense drops to 0% instantly. Then my horses/tanks/musketeers do their thing. I never respected the espionage system in Civ4 until RFC.
     
  4. Jaded_Feriluce

    Jaded_Feriluce Dark Lord of the Regents

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Messages:
    192
    Location:
    Muncie, IN. USA
    If you're rich and powerful, seige weapons aren't very useful.. but I found them to be very important when playing countries like Japan. When you don't have many cites and every troop counts, softening up the enemy with some disposable seige weapons can make the difference between being able to continue on to the next city on your war path or having to take a few turns to heal... which can make what you thought would be a quick and dirty little war turn into a game long conflict. Just my opinion though. :)
     
  5. Tyo

    Tyo HANDS HIGH TO THE SOUND Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    4,131
    I use them all the time. soften up city defenses, send them to a suicide run for collateral damage, swarm with troops. In the end, you'll probably lose most of your seige weapons but not many cavalry/infantry/etc. All you need is three units of them to do quite a lot to the enemy. If you have five you're army will be undefeated in seiges.

    Plus just making battle stradegies is fun. It's a stradegy game, afterall. Where's the stradegy in swarming the city with lots of men? ;D
     
  6. LuKo

    LuKo The Royal Guard

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,500
    Location:
    Poland
    It's famous Russian strategy (You'll run out of bullets faster than we run out of men").

    But I find warfare without siege weapons very hard (even if I'm powerful siege weapons allow me to maintain higher stability as less of my units die).
     
  7. Tyo

    Tyo HANDS HIGH TO THE SOUND Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    4,131
    These are the same guys wo gives up territory in order to win wars. I'll admit it has always worked, but I don't think people on here actually let the enemy roam their territory, claiming it, and then attack when the General Winter effect starts taking it's toll. lol.

    Yeah, I agree. If anything, seige weapons helps your cause further than that. The enemy ends up losing a lot more battles.
     
  8. G-Max

    G-Max Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,556
    I never respected siege weapons until I actually started using them and learned how much of a difference it makes when you reduce an enemy city's defenses from 60% to 0%
     
  9. Kawzmo191

    Kawzmo191 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    163
    Location:
    Houston, Texas, U.S
    Another thing that's often overlooked, besides cata-rushing, is field artillery. Those few artillery pieces that I give all the Barrage (collateral damage) upgrades I can are meant for attacking stacks met in the field, that is outside of the city.

    But since Europe gives little opportunity to meet stacks between cities, this strategy often goes to waste. Best used as China, but even the cannon's effects are mitigated by them there Keshiks.

    They're still handy though, maybe? Idk.

    If I'm lucky enough build triple promoted siege weapons, I'll almost always get all the city raiders, followed by Accuracy (a nice little promotion, helps you move quickly through an enemy, less downtime for sieges and such.) mixed with maybe a few Barrage III's followed by Drill I.
     
  10. Veshta

    Veshta Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    289
    Take your stack of muskets up against an enemy stack with 1/3rd cannon, then come back and say siege is useless. Suiciding the generally cheaper siege units to save the lives of the proper combat troops makes hammer sense (collateral damage is the key).

    Cannot count the number of times my Ottoman games have been thwarted by a cannon happy Germany .. all my lovely Janissaries have twitches when they hear loud sounds :(
     
  11. Kawzmo191

    Kawzmo191 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    163
    Location:
    Houston, Texas, U.S
    Combat II/Flanking II Knights would like to have a word with you :p

    This thread is now about proper stack composition, with a special respect to field & siege artillery.
     
  12. Veshta

    Veshta Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    289
    Except that cannon are gunpowder so you need Cuirassier/Cavalry to abuse the flanking feature .. :)

    Cannons are top of the crop/powerful for a good while so well worth spamming like the AI does.
     
  13. Kawzmo191

    Kawzmo191 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    163
    Location:
    Houston, Texas, U.S
    Wait, so Knights can't get flanking damage against gunpowder units? :blush:
     
  14. Veshta

    Veshta Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    289
    Nope, only against units of their own or previous eras so Catapults and Trebuchets for knights, Cuirassier/Cavalry add Cannons and Helicopters get flanking against cannon, artillery+mobile artillery (but lose catapult/trebuchet).

    Says so on the tin (ie. unit descriptions ;))
     
  15. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,073
    I use siege in RFC, but not as much as in regular BTS. If I can, I use them to bring city defenses down to zero. However, due to stability, suicide siege isn't as attractive an option in RFC. I don't know if you can even use espionage against independents. I wouldn't try it even if I could but I like to get defenses down to zero so I don't lose as many troops.

    I also war a little less in RFC because of the lower domination requirements and the research penalties from more cities. I'm more selective in RFC instead of just killing the nearest heathen in BTS. Also, with the religion spread, you're more likely to be surrounded by brothers and sisters of the faith.
     
  16. killerkebab

    killerkebab Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    571
    Am I the only one who likes giving them city raider promotions as someone like Germany and using them as city smashers?

    Since almost all fighting is urban, I find it works for me. Is there a better use?
     
  17. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,073
    This is the way to go in regular BTS. Also, with Germany's UP you can upgrade your Trebs to Artillery and if you have a tech lead the Artillery does a nice job as city smashers. I'll use cannons if the enemy doesn't have anything to seriously overmatch them (and starting out as Turkey to get Constantinople). However, for wars you have to win, suicide siege is often the best way.

    I use fewer siege in RFC due to stability problems from suicide siege. The espionage revolt does work wonders, however. 1 spy can do the work of 8 cannons.
     
  18. travathian

    travathian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2003
    Messages:
    262
    My smaller army is going to be a lot more durable and deadly thanks to all the extra promotions it has, mostly due to guaranteed victories after siege softening enemies. Not only do I stand a better chance of surviving, but my survivors will have more health and thus be able to withstand a counterattack easier. Using siege allows me to basically farm for XP, especially for those units who may only be 1xp away from the next promotion. This allows me to keep a smaller, more potent army, thus saving me money and reducing my chances of instability due to throwing away masses of regular units on taking down a stack. Yes, I gain instability due to losses of siege units, but that is an investment towards a more powerful standing army.

    And if you head over to the CFC main page and check out the War Academy, read up about combat. You'll quickly see that even just a few siege units can make a difference when two stacks face off.
     
  19. Mosher

    Mosher Mushroom dad

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2010
    Messages:
    6,088
    Location:
    New England
    Yeah, in normal BtS, but in RFC losing units hurts your stability.


    EDIT :blush: Whoops, I didn't read the date on the last post...

    Sorry.
     
  20. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2,800
    Location:
    the 1800s
    hmm. So spies + swordsmen + catapults is the best Japan vs China scenario? :)
     

Share This Page