Significant mistake in Tokugawa's ability

[pokiehl]

Tokugawa might be even stronger than what we all initially thought.

Cities within 6 tiles of Japan's capital are 100% loyal and after researching Flight receive +1 Tourism for every District.

A logical read of this ability makes one think that the described bonuses (100% Loyalty and Tourism from districts) apply to the "Cities within 6 tiles of Japan's capital" mentioned in the subject of the sentence.

However, while modding, I discovered that the Tourism portion of this ability is actually coded to apply Tourism to all districts in all of Japan's cities. This is a massive buff compared to what I think everyone's initial interpretation was.

This seems like a mistake in execution rather than a mistake in wording. I wonder if they'll change it.

EDIT: I apologize everyone, I made a mistake and overlooked the part of the code that restricts it to the 6 tiles. However, @JNR13 in this thread did discover that Nader Shah's Trade Route ability is bugged to apply to all cities, not just conquered. So at least we learned something

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Tokugawa might be even stronger than what we all initially thought.



A logical read of this ability makes one think that the described bonuses (100% Loyalty and Tourism from districts) apply to the "Cities within 6 tiles of Japan's capital" mentioned in the subject of the sentence. However, while modding, I discovered that the Tourism portion of this ability is actually coded to apply Tourism to all districts in all of Japan's cities. This is a massive buff compared to what I think everyone's initial interpretation is.

This seems like a mistake in execution rather than a mistake in wording. I wonder if they'll change it.

Huh. The wording was just ambiguous enough that I wondered if that might be the case.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

On the contrary, I initially thought it meant +1 Tourism for Districts in all Cities, but I changed my mind afterward from reading other people's opinions.

 

[The Highwayman]

Well that's a big deal because +1 tourism in each district within 6 tiles of cap is kind of trash. But if it's every district globally then that could offset the -25% tourism via trade routes. This Japan is looking very interesting indeed...

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Well that's a big deal because +1 tourism in each district within 6 tiles of cap is kind of trash. But if it's every district globally then that could offset the -25% tourism via trade routes. This Japan is looking very interesting indeed...

I'm playing it now and it is shaping up to be one of my favorites.

 

[pokiehl]

Huh. The wording was just ambiguous enough that I wondered if that might be the case.

On the contrary, I initially thought it meant +1 Tourism for Districts in all Cities, but I changed my mind afterward from reading other people's opinions.

If the way it is now is the actual intent, then they at least should update the ability text. It could certainly be more precise, as evinced by our collective confusion.

 

[iammaxhailme]

Huh, I thought it was all cities to begin with. But yeah I see the wording can be confusing

 

[AntSou]

Would a comma be sufficient?

Cities within 6 tiles of Japan's capital are 100% loyal, and after researching Flight receive +1 Tourism for every District.

Not entirely sure on the rules for commas.

Edit: the comma makes it sound like "the player receives" rather than "the city receives", but I don't think that follows the standard format. It should probably just be:

Cities within 6 tiles of Japan's capital are 100% loyal. +1 Tourism for every District after researching Flight.

 

[Francel]

I am playing Tokugawa as well currently. Just hit industrial era, not sure what sort of victory to pursue. I guess culture? How much will the tourism penalty hurt? I think I am overestimating its significance.

I have harbors in every city, lots of strong commercial hubs and IZs too, no holy site, campus or theaters yet: (.

However, the internal trade routes have kept my culture and science on par w others even on deity and my gold stream is massive. Just unsure which victory type.

 

[pokiehl]

Would a comma be sufficient?

Cities within 6 tiles of Japan's capital are 100% loyal, and after researching Flight receive +1 Tourism for every District.

Not entirely sure on the rules for commas.

Edit: the comma makes it sound like "the player receives" rather than "the city receives", but I don't think that follows the standard format. It should probably just be:

Cities within 6 tiles of Japan's capital are 100% loyal. +1 Tourism for every District after researching Flight.

To me if it’s not related to the 6 cities then it shouldn’t be in the same sentence. A comma doesn’t fix anything there IMO. The second example works.

But actually, it’s directly a compensation for the malus, right? So if it’s for all cities, the wording logically should be placed closer to the Trade Route bonus.

 

[rocksinmypath]

It would make more sense that it's a wording error rather than an implementation one. The 6-tile interpretation was so weak that I thought the leak was fake. It basically translates to something like 50 tourism (8 cities, 4-5 specialty districts + city centre + aqueduct each) in exchange of -25% of tourism from trade routes. Usually, 1000 tourism (after applying Computers and Environmentalism bonuses) is necessary to make meaning progress toward culture victory, so the trade-off is: up to -250 tourism from trade routes offset by 75 tourism from districts (50 * 1.5). It'd be hopelessly unbalanced. I think even with the alternative interpretation, this is still a pretty weak ability, although Tokugawa's kit is still pretty strong overall.

I wish the district tourism output was related to adjacencies. Something like: tourism equal to 100% of adjacency bonus for each applicable specialty district in cities within 6 tiles of the capital. Maybe it'd be a touch overpowered, but it'd be more interesting.

 

[JNR13]

I wish the district tourism output was related to adjacencies. Something like: tourism equal to 100% of adjacency bonus for each applicable specialty district in cities within 6 tiles of the capital. Maybe it'd be a touch overpowered, but it'd be more interesting.

Could be "+1 per district, doubled if adjacency is at least +4" or so.

Also, if I were to add a fix to my Community Patch mod, do y'all think it's better to just do a text change for now until we know if the way it works ingame is intended or not?

 

[fy00sh]

Could be "+1 per district, doubled if adjacency is at least +4" or so.

Also, if I were to add a fix to my Community Patch mod, do y'all think it's better to just do a text change for now until we know if the way it works ingame is intended or not?

i think its best to just do a text change, preferably to what AntSou's edited comment says. im reasonably confident this is the intent, it was just worded poorly. it's how i first interpreted it, and its what i think would be most fun, so if thats how it works out in game then im all for it. Esp if you'd be so kind as to make sure the change applies to the base game version of the ability too, for those of us (by which i probably just mean me) who've edited the game files to make the base game version the only version

 

[pokiehl]

Should read 'for all districts'. I love Civ 6, but it fails utterly in the plain English department. Everything is so wordy and ambiguous.

If someone were to write me a nice check, I would have a lot of fun creating an in-house style guide and going to town on the technical writing in the game. There are so many things that annoy me, from inconsistent descriptions of similar bonuses, to inconsistent use of font icons, to errant spaces and other typos.

(Tokugawa’s ability description incidentally has many of these issues: extra spaces inserted in several places, not using the Capital font icon, novel use of “Yields” as a catch-all, etc.)

In a text-heavy genre so dependent on players precisely understanding how complex game systems work and interact with each other, it is important to ensure the writing is clear, consistent, and concise. This confusion over Tokugawa’s ability is a great example why.

 

[bbbt]

Yeah I was wondering if it was gonna apply to all districts despite what the text implied cause it seemed so meager otherwise compared to the trade route nerf.

 

[Saxo Grammaticus]

Did we ever figure out the intention behind the tourism bonus? I still find it quite jarring after Tokugawa's last appearance. Not that Japan needed the buff, but personally it would have made more sense to combine with Meiji Restoration.

 

[Niallism]

If someone were to write me a nice check, I would have a lot of fun creating an in-house style guide and going to town on the technical writing in the game. There are so many things that annoy me, from inconsistent descriptions of similar bonuses, to inconsistent use of font icons, to errant spaces and other typos.

(Tokugawa’s ability description incidentally has many of these issues: extra spaces inserted in several places, not using the Capital font icon, novel use of “Yields” as a catch-all, etc.)

In a text-heavy genre so dependent on players precisely understanding how complex game systems work and interact with each other, it is important to ensure the writing is clear, consistent, and concise. This confusion over Tokugawa’s ability is a great example why.

Yeah I think the same thing. I get frustrated by the struggle to find clients when so many big projects have such low standards.

 

[JNR13]

Turns out Nader Shah's ability has a mistake, too. The requirement "city is conquered" is not assigned to the requirement set "city is conquered", meaning the requirement always reports as true and domestic trade routes from ALL cities get the bonus.

 

[DWilson]

Turns out Nader Shah's ability has a mistake, too. The requirement "city is conquered" is not assigned to the requirement set "city is conquered", meaning the requirement always reports as true and domestic trade routes from ALL cities get the bonus.

I honestly like the ability better that way as well.

Between Lincoln maybe giving amenities on top of loyalty (even with expansions), Nader Shah having broader abilities, and Tokugawa having broader abilities, it consistently makes it better.

Generally I think any loyalty ability boost benefits (not full loyalty benefits) should include amenities as well.

 

[JNR13]

It seems like this is not an issue after all. Looking at the game files, I can see the 6-radius limitation applied to the Tourism bonus just fine, and someone on Reddit also tested it ingame and found districts further out don't get the Tourism.