Silk01 - SG for SG noobs, noble or prince level

[dualmaster]

I'd still go agri before BW. This lets you farm FP ASAP (I always try to get food tiles going first for max growth speed). BW will still come in before we really need it (probably before we even start building a settler for a second city and before we need to chop/whip). IMO having farms up early is more important than mines/prechops.

I did a quick sim (based on visible tiles) going agri-bw, worker>warrior. At T32 have completed Worker+warrior, with BW in 4 turns. One farm complete and one part way done. Pop 2 in one turn.

Just my thoughts.

This much planning for a prince game? Poor AI

 

[Trynthlas]

Can we get a team consensus on whether we want to explore with both units on turn 0, and then decide from there ... or do we want to just move the scout and probably settle on turn 0?

 

[silk1976]

I played the first turn set. It ended up being 35 turns until a good stopping point was reached. Unfortunately it was while dualmaster did his sim, and Trynthlas posted about team consensus. If I jumped the gun a bit - sorry about that!

So, first I scouted and settled 1N. I did this mostly because it loses the 3 plains tiles that were to the south, and gained a couple extra river tiles. Not necessarily for watermills and whatnot - but more for the extra commerce. Everything else (grassland count, hill count, etc) seemed like a wash. It also seemed like most everyone thought that given the number of plains tiles, it wasn't a fantastic start anyway, so there wasn't a whole hell of a lot of tweaking to be done.

This is what it looked like:

Spoiler :

Once settled, I did basic exploration.

So (turn/year):
2/3975 - settled Berlin 1N of starting position. Begin worker build. Begin BW research. Worked FP. Kept nearby hut so that city border will pop.

9/3825 - popped hut for 42 gold

10/3800 - met stalin (north and a little east of Berlin)

11/3775 - hut popped by border expansion provided a scout

12/3750 - scout encounter with lion. Fortify to heal for 8 turns (used up our free win vs barbs)

12/3750 - popped hut near stalin for 97 gold

13/3675 - buddhism FIDL

16/3600 - popped hut for 49 gold

20/3500 - popped hut for xp

20/3500 - popped hut for map

21/3475 - scout that popped hut for map was in forest and got attacked by lion. died.

21/3475 - promote scout that got xp to woodsman 2

23/3425 - got BW. Research Ag. DID NOT GO TO SLAVERY YET. No copper in BFC, but there is a copper nearby.

24/3400 - worker built. Head over to hill to build mine

28/3300 - Hinduism FIDL

31/3225 - mine finished. Head over to work on FP when Ag comes in (4 turns)

31/3225 - pop hut for 87 gold

33/3175 - meet sitting bull (way up north)

35/3125 - Berlin goes to pop 2. Got Ag. Set to research AH next. Save game.

Here is the area around Berlin:

Spoiler :

Here is the explored continent so far, showing location of stalin and sitting bull:

Spoiler :

Here is the explored continent showing resource locations:

Spoiler :

Status as of the save game:
- BW and Ag in, currently teching AH but no beakers committed. 1 FP and 1 mine worked. Building warrior, and worker is set to farm the FP
- Stone and copper are nearby, but not within capital BFC.
- We appear to be on southern end of continent.
- Stalin is our closest neighbor. Sitting Bull it pretty far up to the north.

So at this point I think we need to decide on a couple things:

• 
  Civics - I did not spend the turn in anarchy to get slavery just yet. We may want to do that soon, now that a worker is out that and would not be affected by anarchy. Depends on when we want to start whipping.

• 
  Stalin - Our closest neighbor. I think we need to take him out, as he is aggressive. Starts with hunting and mining.

Since Stalin starts with hunting, its possible that an early warrior rush might be a bad move because he could get archery pretty quickly. OTOH - getting and hooking copper is going to take a bit of time, and he'll most definately have archers by then - making it almost necessary to get cats.

Roster:
1) silk1976 (just played)
2) cripp7 (up next)
3) Trynthlas (on deck)
4) dualmaster
5) coercivity

 

[Trynthlas]

CRI Axes can kill archers easy enough if he's not on a hill.

Thoughts:
- Revolt to slavery, chop/pop rush a settler (don't rush for more than 2 pop)
- Settle city to get copper (thinking 1NW of the copper, to grab pigs and stone in BFC)
- Spam axes.
- Kill Stalin.
- Expand like crazy (this is after stalin is deaders)


First 3 will probably take 2 sets, and killing stalin should be quick 'n easy because it doesn't look like he has copper.

 

[dualmaster]

CRI Axes can kill archers easy enough if he's not on a hill.

Thoughts:
- Revolt to slavery, chop/pop rush a settler (don't rush for more than 2 pop)
- Settle city to get copper (thinking 1NW of the copper, to grab pigs and stone in BFC)
- Spam axes.
- Kill Stalin.
- Expand like crazy (this is after stalin is deaders)


First 3 will probably take 2 sets, and killing stalin should be quick 'n easy because it doesn't look like he has copper.

once again. Axe rush on Stalin should be easy - city not on a hill and should only be 40% culture. Then we might be open for some serious REXing. I was considering 1S of copper for city - with a border pop it would claim wheat and pigs giving better growth for whipping. Other pig and stone could be part of another city. Would be nice to hook up stone early though in case we want some wonders.

It'd be nice to see more to the east - use warrior to scout and then escort settler?

Build - either settler first, or rax to allow city to grow before starting settler

Tech - Wheel/myst/AH? Wheel so worker can start road to copper asap. If settler is first then I would go myst before AH so we can chop a monument (need border pop to get food for second city which will help with whipping out an axe army). If allowing capital to grow go AH so we can pasture sheep and find horsies.

 

[cripp7]

once again. Axe rush on Stalin should be easy - city not on a hill and should only be 40% culture. Then we might be open for some serious REXing. I was considering 1S of copper for city - with a border pop it would claim wheat and pigs giving better growth for whipping. Other pig and stone could be part of another city. Would be nice to hook up stone early though in case we want some wonders.

It'd be nice to see more to the east - use warrior to scout and then escort settler?

Build - either settler first, or rax to allow city to grow before starting settler

Tech - Wheel/myst/AH? Wheel so worker can start road to copper asap. If settler is first then I would go myst before AH so we can chop a monument (need border pop to get food for second city which will help with whipping out an axe army). If allowing capital to grow go AH so we can pasture sheep and find horsies.

I believe getting a settler out by the time myst is in to grab the 1S (depending what's on the east side of the stone) although hooking up stone for the Mids would be nice. Hopefully we find horse close by.

Tech path sounds good to me.

 

[silk1976]

Inserting wheel and myst before AH makes sense to help hook up copper.

What type of city would 1S of the copper end up being? With two food sources and that many plains, all I see in its near future is a handful of cottages.
Although I suppose it would be a good whipping post. Its just that getting the monument (and later on the granary) will take quite a while, as there aren't many forests or hills around.
So what am I missing?

I'd say we go for stone when we get a good chance. It has far less priority than getting rid of nearby aggressive AI.

Just thinking ahead a couple thousand years - once we get Moscow - it might be worth putting our capital there. Its more centrally located (to help with REX costs), and it has some grassland river tiles that would be good for cottages. Could be a good and city with beaurocracy. But we'll get to that when we get there.

 

[Coercivity]

1s looks good to me, coastal too. Flexible too, I mean if we want to make it a long term production city, we could just farm around the lake and workshop the place and throw in the statues (though it's only 4 water tiles, or 5 can't really tell). All our nice science cities will be in that nice grass band to the north. Though definitely we need the warrior to fogbust to the east.
Oh we want the whip fairly soonish, maybe after warrior's done?
also i would vote ah first as I have a feeling horses are nearby

 

[dualmaster]

also i would vote ah first as I have a feeling horses are nearby

If we're planning an axe rush, that takes priority. We need wheel to get a road built to the copper so we can chop/whip axes out. Going AH first would significantly delay getting copper, and finding horses doesn't give us any significant advantage.

I assume cripp7 has it and is playing?

EDIT: Coerc, did you mean AH before myst, as in wheel>AH>myst?

 

[cripp7]

I can go ahead and start, played up to 2200bc

Techs switched to wheel>myst>AH>pottery(2t)

builds warrior(to scout, eaten by lion)>warrior(almost eaten by more lions, barbs are going to be a problem soon)>settler(chop)>warrior>worker(start)

I scouted a few tiles east of the stone which has corn/pig/stone so it'll be a good hybrid city

Spoiler :

Sent the scout up N to map out the looong continent and met our other favorite leader at the top of the world

Spoiler :

Gotta love this guy!

Once at pop3 I did a chop out on a settler and sent him 1S of the copper and started a monument. Once at pop4 I start another worker which is 2t from a chop. After AH, NO HORSE around even close. Doh! I did forget to revolt to slavery, but I don't believe it hurt us any.

World view of civs

Spoiler :

 

[silk1976]

Agree on prioritizing copper if doing an axe rush - which I think is what we want.

For Shaka - we can deal with him later. We have SB as a buffer, and although I have very little xp with SB, I hear he can be a pain. Maybe SB and shaka will fight amongst themselves a bit before we have to deal with them.

I figure no harm done in forgetting to go to slavery - you'd have switched if there were a need to. In other words - the fact that it was forgotten meant that there was no need to whip - and therefore not a significant factor that we're still at despotism.

Sucks that there is no horse nearby, though. Oh well - many times in my solo games I dont bother with horses unless terribly convenient - so I'm used to not having them.

So trynthlas is up next. In following his general plan from a previous post, the next steps would be to get the copper fully hooked up, revolt and start chopping/whipping axes. I think we have two workers now - and the cities are not too awful far apart - so getting a road down between the two shouldn't take too long.

I'd also think that perhaps bringing the scout back down - just to keep tabs on stalin -might be a good idea. Stalin is probably close to putting down a 2nd city - so it'd be nice to know where that is. Fortunately, it doesn't look like he has horses nearby to him either (unless in the fog). So he'll likely only have archers.

How many axes do you think would be necessary? Maybe a worker or two could be stolen when the time comes as well. Would help for hooking a road up from moscow down to our current cities

 

[silk1976]

I did a quick sim (based on visible tiles) going agri-bw, worker>warrior. At T32 have completed Worker+warrior, with BW in 4 turns. One farm complete and one part way done. Pop 2 in one turn.

I wanted to ask before, but forgot - what sim did you use? is it available on this board?
One thing I need to get better at is some of those number crunching calculations. Right now they'd take me too long, and I'd get side tracked with variables. So if a sim of sorts exists, that could be a great help.

 

[dualmaster]

I wanted to ask before, but forgot - what sim did you use? is it available on this board?

Just started a similar map and used worldbuilder to match terrain.

Looked at save, a few comments:
- We have two warriors sitting in Berlin. Lets get one scouting.
- Hut south of Berlin - we could try and save it by not signing OB and see if we get a lucky tech pop. Otherwise lets grab it soon and scout the south shore at the same time.
- I'm assuming there isn't another AI to the east or we would have seen one of their units.
- Having copper city work the copper tile will get the monument done faster making it productive sooner.
- We need that road and copper asap.
- Don't forget a barracks before building axes.
- Use first axe or two to scout around Stalin's lands?

Diplo- After kiling Stalin we should try to buddy up with SB so we can peaceful REX across the south.

Alright Tryn, build me an army worthy of Mordor....errr....Germany.

 

[cripp7]

Sounds pretty good to me, get the hut before border pop. you know the routine, Axe>axe>..

 

[Trynthlas]

Will play it tomorrow

 

[CommandoBob]

lurker's comment:
I'll be watching this game from up in the peanut gallery, if you don't mind. I've been with for a long time but got Civ4 and BtS for Christmas. BtS is patched to 3.17f. I've read some of the articles in the War Academy, but a few of them made my eyes gloss over. For me, hands-on, or close to it, beats booklearning to understand some things.

So far I've had about 45 minutes or so of Civ4 gametime.

 

[cripp7]

lurker's comment:
I'll be watching this game from up in the peanut gallery, if you don't mind. I've been with for a long time but got Civ4 and BtS for Christmas. BtS is patched to 3.17f. I've read some of the articles in the War Academy, but a few of them made my eyes gloss over. For me, hands-on, or close to it, beats booklearning to understand some things.

So far I've had about 45 minutes or so of Civ4 gametime.

Glad to have a spectator! Hope you enjoy the show

 

[Trynthlas]

Hum.

So apparently the game was started with BUG 3.5.1 installed as a mod under "Mods/BUG 3.5.1" and since I don't have it there I can't load the save.

Skip me for this round until I figure a work-around for this.

 

[dualmaster]

Alright, I'll play later today then.

 

[cripp7]

Hum.

So apparently the game was started with BUG 3.5.1 installed as a mod under "Mods/BUG 3.5.1" and since I don't have it there I can't load the save.

Skip me for this round until I figure a work-around for this.

If you have the standard BUG install, you can still install 3.5.1 into the MODS folder and it still work ok