cripp7
Playin' Bored
currency is in, should we go med>priest>CoL for a discount or straight to CoL?
Silk01 - SG for SG noobs, noble or prince level
- Thread starter silk1976
- Start date
dualmaster
Emperor
CoL immediately - need courthouses
silk1976
Building empire
Agreed. Going for the religion techs does nothing for us - and only delays currency.
There would be a discount for CoL had we gone the other way? While I doubt the discount would make up for the delays in going that route - can anyone provide a quick explanation of how that discount works? (but no need for the game to be held up on that)
cripp7
Playin' Bored
Whew..barbarians at the gate. Short and sweet, don't have time for a detailed report.
Started by cranking up the slider to 100% and hiring scientists in Berlin, Hamburg which shaved off 2t. Munich whipped library for chariot. Moscow whipped library, overflow went to chariot then Mids. Soon as Currency was in, headed straight to CoL, slider @40%/+1. Lost the Mids but received 450
to push CoL ahead. Shaka declared on SB as predicted. Lost the MidsSettled the green dot, red dot, moai(once settler came in). Chariots chased barbed around for awhile. Confusion founded in Rostov, SB asked for OB and accepted for diplo. Of . We have a missionary to send to him to convert.
Started by cranking up the slider to 100% and hiring scientists in Berlin, Hamburg which shaved off 2t. Munich whipped library for chariot. Moscow whipped library, overflow went to chariot then Mids. Soon as Currency was in, headed straight to CoL, slider @40%/+1. Lost the Mids but received 450
to push CoL ahead. Shaka declared on SB as predicted. Lost the MidsSettled the green dot, red dot, moai(once settler came in). Chariots chased barbed around for awhile. Confusion founded in Rostov, SB asked for OB and accepted for diplo. Of . We have a missionary to send to him to convert. Spoiler log :
dualmaster
Emperor
Got the save.
Looked at the save:
- Our econ is tanked (breaking even at 10%) but we have a pile of gold for some deficit spending
- We desperately need
- our cities are capped at 4
- We need more workers (some being built
)
- Why a market in Moscow?!?
It's going to net us <1 gpt. I guess I'll finish it since it is halfway done, but moscow should pump military/workers (after courthouse)
- Great Scientist due in 2 turns - can bulb Alpha, I think we should do that so we can tech trade
- Barbs running around, but we have a nice military to deal with them
- Did we whip a worker in Munich
Next turn set:
- Try to recover economy - probably won't settle any more cities, whip up courthouses, no more military? (we're already paying maint for units)
- Tech - myst>mono>monarchy? Monarchy will let us run HR and hook up wines for much needed happy, myst good for later run on Great Lib, and mono for Org Rel which will greatly help spreading confus for both diplo, happy, and culture bonus
- Run 100%
until treasury is near empty - get to monarchy as fast as possible
- Build infra with focus on boosting economy
I can play tonight if the above plan sounds ok.
Looked at the save:
- Our econ is tanked (breaking even at 10%) but we have a pile of gold for some deficit spending
- We desperately need
- our cities are capped at 4- We need more workers (some being built
)- Why a market in Moscow?!?
It's going to net us <1 gpt. I guess I'll finish it since it is halfway done, but moscow should pump military/workers (after courthouse)- Great Scientist due in 2 turns - can bulb Alpha, I think we should do that so we can tech trade
- Barbs running around, but we have a nice military to deal with them
- Did we whip a worker in Munich
Next turn set:
- Try to recover economy - probably won't settle any more cities, whip up courthouses, no more military? (we're already paying maint for units)
- Tech - myst>mono>monarchy? Monarchy will let us run HR and hook up wines for much needed happy, myst good for later run on Great Lib, and mono for Org Rel which will greatly help spreading confus for both diplo, happy, and culture bonus
- Run 100%
until treasury is near empty - get to monarchy as fast as possible- Build infra with focus on boosting economy
I can play tonight if the above plan sounds ok.
dualmaster
Emperor
My only thought with academy is that it gives little immediate benefit, though long term it is a much better option. Let's go ahead with an academy. Frankfurt looks like a decent spot (fastest return on investment), but do you think a pure commerce site would be better?
silk1976
Building empire
Here are my thoughts:
- Now that we have CoL and currency - can breath a bit tech wise until economy recovers. At this point, I think economy takes front seat and tech takes back seat.
- Speaking of tech, next priority I think is getting priesthood so that we can build temples.
- after GS comes out of hamburg, switch to no specialists and work
tiles. Need production for courthouse.
- switch production for any city not currently building a worker to building courthouses (except for essen, which doesn't even have a monument yet). That will give the fastest economic benefit - faster than markets. Work tiles as much as possible in those cities.
- Switch moscow to courthouse. Yeah the market is halfway done - but courthouse is more important, I think. If we had luxuries that the market would capitalize on, I might think differently - but we dont.
- those cities building workers now, build courthouses next - once the workers are out in a few turns.
- Once courthouses are built, we can then work on getting priesthood and getting temples down to increase
- Regarding the GS and academy and lightbulbing - Why not settle the GS in our GP farm? I agree that the academy gives little immediate benefit, and unless really necessary, I also dont like to lightbulb early techs because they require fewer beakers than the GS can provide. An exception to that might be if there is a real pressing need - but I doubt SB or Shaka will give us anything really useful for trade at this point - even if they will trade with us. Plus, since our economy is so tanked, having a settled GS can help keep tech moving along. We can build an academy later when it is more beneficial.
- Now that we have CoL and currency - can breath a bit tech wise until economy recovers. At this point, I think economy takes front seat and tech takes back seat.
- Speaking of tech, next priority I think is getting priesthood so that we can build temples.
- after GS comes out of hamburg, switch to no specialists and work
tiles. Need production for courthouse.- switch production for any city not currently building a worker to building courthouses (except for essen, which doesn't even have a monument yet). That will give the fastest economic benefit - faster than markets. Work
tiles as much as possible in those cities.- Switch moscow to courthouse. Yeah the market is halfway done - but courthouse is more important, I think. If we had luxuries that the market would capitalize on, I might think differently - but we dont.
- those cities building workers now, build courthouses next - once the workers are out in a few turns.
- Once courthouses are built, we can then work on getting priesthood and getting temples down to increase
- Regarding the GS and academy and lightbulbing - Why not settle the GS in our GP farm? I agree that the academy gives little immediate benefit, and unless really necessary, I also dont like to lightbulb early techs because they require fewer beakers than the GS can provide. An exception to that might be if there is a real pressing need - but I doubt SB or Shaka will give us anything really useful for trade at this point - even if they will trade with us. Plus, since our economy is so tanked, having a settled GS can help keep tech moving along. We can build an academy later when it is more beneficial.
dualmaster
Emperor
I'd much rather build an academy - a city working just a few cottages will quickly benefit more than a settled scientist and the long term bonus is enormous.
S.ilver
Emperor
Lurker Comment:
Can't open your save due to strange usage of BUG, but if your slider is at 10% right now, settling a GS would be a considerable amount of beakers added to your bottom line, which becomes independent of the slider. It also looks up if you happen to be running Rep (again, not sure as I can't open the save).
Keep in mind that an academy will do very little in a cottage city with 10% slider. If, however, you are running loads of scientists in that city, or have some other way of channeling raw beakers in, then it will help.
silk1976
Building empire
I'm not saying never build an academy - I'm just thinking that a settled GS provides more benefit at the moment, and with Berlin going to be popping out a GS in the near future (to be pushed back once the GS in hamburg pops out), that second GS can build the academy.
Where would you suggest building an academy? We have 3 cities above size 3 - Hamburg, Moscow and Berlin. Moscow and Berlin are largely production cities, and they have no cottages. Hamburg has cottages, but will take forever to build a courthouse unless it is working
tiles - which won't provide commerce for research.I could be wrong, but it seems to me that if we prioritize on building courthouses to recover the economy - that means whipping - and whipping means few citizens to work cottages. And with such a small
cap - we almost have to whip continuously.EDIT: right now, we produce 25 beakers. A settled GS will provide a 25% increase to that. And as S.ilver points out - that is regardless of slider position.
dualmaster
Emperor
This round was focused on trying to boost our economy. Courthouses are up in 6/8 cities, confusianism is in 7/8 cities, several markets up or almost done, libraries on their way. I did a ton of chopping. Whipping was a little more limited as I focused on getting cities up to happy cap. Also tried to work cottages as much as possible so they grow sooner.
preflight check - change moscow to courthouse, move missionary to settle in moscow (can pump out missionaries later), move some units to deal with incoming barbs, crank up science slider>poly due in 3, too bad we didn't get the 'mids, +3 per specialist woulda been a big boost
T182 - Spread confus to moscow, kill barb axe and spear, Munich worker>courthouse
T183 - Berlin worker>wealth (allow growth to pop cap)
T184 - Settled GS in Rostov, decided on the immediate boost and this city will eventually be a science city anyways
T185 - Poly>mono, we get a sweet quest
T185/186 - we be broke, 20%, -3
T188 - SB demands copper, I say ok for diplo boost (and he might need help vs Shaka), will cancel in 10 turns
T189 - Mono>monarchy, moscow courthouse>market, revolt to Org Relig (1 gpt civic)
T191 - Moscow market>confu missionary, Berlin start confu missionary
At least we're big:
T193 - SB asks war with Shaka, I say no, Hamburg courthouse>worker, Rostov library>court
T196 - Essen monument>granary
T197 - Munich court>wealth, Moscow confu>confu, sending confus missionary to SB so he can convert, currently have confu in 4 cities, Shaka makes unreasonable demand:
T198 - Munich starts market, Rostov court>market, now running 30% at -1
T201 - Cologne court>lib
T202 - Spread confu to SB, he changes to our religion
T205 - Stopped here as I was at 23 turns, monarchy due next turn, workers prepared to build winery immediately, currently running at 50%, -2 (this is boosted by some wealth builds though)
A bunch of pictures for those who can't open the save:
Next player:
- GS due in Berlin in 10 turns, then GP production can move to GP farm
- Go to HR for happy boost
- Build winery for happy boost
- If you look at power graphs, SB is getting beat up pretty well by Shaka, I think we should gift copper to SB (he hasn't had any gpt to trade), because we need SB alive to shield against Shaka. Hopefully with enough war they will both fall behind in tech so we can roll over them later.
Other thoughts:
- Getting a great prophet sometime would be good for building the shrine - this would be a big econ boost for us
- Our military is a little weak but we're already paying maintenance. I don't see us getting DoWed anytime soon so I don't think we should build too many military units
- Once the market is up, our GP farm can start running two merchants - this would provide some nice gpt and popping a GM wouldn't be bad for some fast cash
- Techs: just a thought - priest (for temples) > fishing? (for crabs/fish) > aesthetics > lit -- this would take us toward the Great Library and a good option for a completion of the library quest (we need 1 more city to complete quest)
Roster:
1) silk1976
2) cripp7
3) dualmaster - just played
4) Trynthlas - up now
5) coercivity (status??)
preflight check - change moscow to courthouse, move missionary to settle in moscow (can pump out missionaries later), move some units to deal with incoming barbs, crank up science slider>poly due in 3, too bad we didn't get the 'mids, +3
per specialist woulda been a big boostT182 - Spread confus to moscow, kill barb axe and spear, Munich worker>courthouse
T183 - Berlin worker>wealth (allow growth to pop cap)
T184 - Settled GS in Rostov, decided on the immediate boost and this city will eventually be a science city anyways
T185 - Poly>mono, we get a sweet quest
T185/186 - we be broke, 20%
, -3T188 - SB demands copper, I say ok for diplo boost (and he might need help vs Shaka), will cancel in 10 turns
T189 - Mono>monarchy, moscow courthouse>market, revolt to Org Relig (1 gpt civic)
T191 - Moscow market>confu missionary, Berlin start confu missionary
At least we're big:
T193 - SB asks war with Shaka, I say no, Hamburg courthouse>worker, Rostov library>court
T196 - Essen monument>granary
T197 - Munich court>wealth, Moscow confu>confu, sending confus missionary to SB so he can convert, currently have confu in 4 cities, Shaka makes unreasonable demand:
Spoiler :
T198 - Munich starts market, Rostov court>market, now running 30%
at -1T201 - Cologne court>lib
T202 - Spread confu to SB, he changes to our religion
T205 - Stopped here as I was at 23 turns, monarchy due next turn, workers prepared to build winery immediately, currently running at 50%
, -2 (this is boosted by some wealth builds though)A bunch of pictures for those who can't open the save:
Spoiler :
Next player:
- GS due in Berlin in 10 turns, then GP production can move to GP farm
- Go to HR for happy boost
- Build winery for happy boost
- If you look at power graphs, SB is getting beat up pretty well by Shaka, I think we should gift copper to SB (he hasn't had any gpt to trade), because we need SB alive to shield against Shaka. Hopefully with enough war they will both fall behind in tech so we can roll over them later.
Other thoughts:
- Getting a great prophet sometime would be good for building the shrine - this would be a big econ boost for us
- Our military is a little weak but we're already paying maintenance. I don't see us getting DoWed anytime soon so I don't think we should build too many military units
- Once the market is up, our GP farm can start running two merchants - this would provide some nice gpt and popping a GM wouldn't be bad for some fast cash
- Techs: just a thought - priest (for temples) > fishing? (for crabs/fish) > aesthetics > lit -- this would take us toward the Great Library and a good option for a completion of the library quest (we need 1 more city to complete quest)
Spoiler :
Roster:
1) silk1976
2) cripp7
3) dualmaster - just played
4) Trynthlas - up now
5) coercivity (status??)
silk1976
Building empire
Nice turnset - getting the economy turned around and a lot of courthouses up.
The screenshots for turn 185 and 191 show up as red x's for me - is there a link problem with them?
- It looks like the GS went into Munich rather than Rostov - did you mean to say Munich in the update? I agree though - probably no biggie since they will both be science and/or commerce cities - so they'll end up with the same buildings (academy, observatory, etc)
-I like the thought process with giving copper to SB to help him against shaka. I always tend to try and steer AI away from what they want - so I'm interested to see how this strategy plays out. I'm a little concerned about Shaka - his power is pretty high. I may be a bit too cautious though - I was just playing a game where I had no negatives with him and like +6-8 diplo, and he DoW'd me at the drop of a hat. So I am suspicious of him.
- I see a cottage being built near Rostov. I thought we were going to farm that whole place since it is a GP farm and more
= more specialists.
- Nice that SB is aligned with us religion-wise. However I have no xp with him on how much religion means to him. Anyone have any idea? In other words - is that an alignment we can count on him not
us?
- For tech, I think we can hold off on fishing - we are well below the
cap. Even with religion, HR and a temple increasing - most cities are a few 
away from capping out. I do agree with aesthetics > lit. It gets us towards the GL as you point out - but also the heroic epic for either berlin or moscow, and the national epic for rostov. We can come back and get fishing later when we need it either for the or when we need sailing for the statues.
The screenshots for turn 185 and 191 show up as red x's for me - is there a link problem with them?
- It looks like the GS went into Munich rather than Rostov - did you mean to say Munich in the update? I agree though - probably no biggie since they will both be science and/or commerce cities - so they'll end up with the same buildings (academy, observatory, etc)
-I like the thought process with giving copper to SB to help him against shaka. I always tend to try and steer AI away from what they want - so I'm interested to see how this strategy plays out. I'm a little concerned about Shaka - his power is pretty high. I may be a bit too cautious though - I was just playing a game where I had no negatives with him and like +6-8 diplo, and he DoW'd me at the drop of a hat. So I am suspicious of him.
- I see a cottage being built near Rostov. I thought we were going to farm that whole place since it is a GP farm and more
= more specialists.- Nice that SB is aligned with us religion-wise. However I have no xp with him on how much religion means to him. Anyone have any idea? In other words - is that an alignment we can count on him not
us?- For tech, I think we can hold off on fishing - we are well below the
cap. Even with religion, HR and a temple increasing - most cities are a few away from capping out. I do agree with aesthetics > lit. It gets us towards the GL as you point out - but also the heroic epic for either berlin or moscow, and the national epic for rostov. We can come back and get fishing later when we need it either for the or when we need sailing for the statues.dualmaster
Emperor
They work fine for me. Dunno what the problem is.
Correct.
It is built there for the future commerce city next to the incense. Rostov has the option of working it to make it grow. In the meantime Rostov has plenty of extra food tiles to work. That was my thought process at least.- I see a cottage being built near Rostov. I thought we were going to farm that whole place since it is a GP farm and more
As long as SB wars with Shaka he won't come for us. That's why I'm not worried about our military - SB won't declare on us, and Shaka would have to march through his lands to get to us.- Nice that SB is aligned with us religion-wise. However I have no xp with him on how much religion means to him. Anyone have any idea? In other words - is that an alignment we can count on him not
Not so much for the health bonus as for the food bonus, particularly in our Moai city, as we will likely have to use whip overflows to get the statues built in a reasonable time. The fish would help it grow back faster. I think it was only 2 turns at current tech rate. And we'll probably want Sailing before too long so we can start the statues.- For tech, I think we can hold off on fishing - we are well below the
I forgot to mention, our chariot that is fogbusting to the south already has Medic I promotion in preparation for being a supermedic.
Coercivity
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2009
- Messages
- 17
Like I said, I'm no longer on 3.17 and I can't patch back up to it. Just cycle with four, I guess.
Only problem with that is those FPs need to be farmed in order for the city there to work the tiles it should. Both the Incense (awesome commerce) are on deserts, so -2 food each. There's no other good place to get the food needed.
Fortunately SB doesn't need copper. Dog soldiers don't require it, and as it turns out he has Iron anyway
Turn 205:
- Switch Hamburg to axeman, in anticipation of HR so happy cap is higher.
- Switch Moscow to axeman
Turn 206:
- Monarchy done, start Fishing->Sailing
- Frankfurt done with courthouse, starts library
- Revolt to HR
- Start building winery by Berlin
Turn 208:
- Moscow finishes Axeman, starts Missionary
Turn 209:
- Shaka comes calling...
I said no, of course.
Turn 210:
- Fishing done
- Berlin done with Market, starts a courthouse
- Confucianism spreads to Essen
Turn 211:
- Essen done with granary, starts WB
Turn 214:
- Sailing done
- Start Aesthetics
- Swap Essen to Lighthouse, Hamburg builds WB. Duh.
Turn 216:
- GS born in Berlin, heads to Munich for academy
- Christianity FIDL
Turn 217:
- Academy!
Turn 219:
- Missionary spreads religion to Chaco Canyon
Turn 221:
- Sitting Bull is now pleased towards us
Turn 222:
- Shaka bothers us again
Turn 224:
- Aesthetics done, queued Literature but no turns invested yet.
- Make a trade with Shaka to get Marble:
- Do some MM in Berlin and Moscow to max out hammers, then start the Parthenon in Berlin (11 turns) and Statue of Zeus in Moscow (14 turns). We could probably chop 1 or 2 forests for each wonder, but past that I wouldn't waste them (not critical wonders)
Posted signs to mark some stuff.
Be sure to get a worker around to work the sheep east of Essen.
- Switch Hamburg to axeman, in anticipation of HR so happy cap is higher.
- Switch Moscow to axeman
Turn 206:
- Monarchy done, start Fishing->Sailing
- Frankfurt done with courthouse, starts library
- Revolt to HR
- Start building winery by Berlin
Turn 208:
- Moscow finishes Axeman, starts Missionary
Turn 209:
- Shaka comes calling...
Spoiler :
I said no, of course.
Turn 210:
- Fishing done
- Berlin done with Market, starts a courthouse
- Confucianism spreads to Essen
Turn 211:
- Essen done with granary, starts WB
Turn 214:
- Sailing done
- Start Aesthetics
- Swap Essen to Lighthouse, Hamburg builds WB. Duh.
Turn 216:
- GS born in Berlin, heads to Munich for academy
- Christianity FIDL
Turn 217:
- Academy!
Spoiler :
Turn 219:
- Missionary spreads religion to Chaco Canyon
Turn 221:
- Sitting Bull is now pleased towards us
Turn 222:
- Shaka bothers us again
Spoiler :
Turn 224:
- Aesthetics done, queued Literature but no turns invested yet.
- Make a trade with Shaka to get Marble:
Spoiler :
- Do some MM in Berlin and Moscow to max out hammers, then start the Parthenon in Berlin (11 turns) and Statue of Zeus in Moscow (14 turns). We could probably chop 1 or 2 forests for each wonder, but past that I wouldn't waste them (not critical wonders)
Posted signs to mark some stuff.
Be sure to get a worker around to work the sheep east of Essen.
Spoiler BUG log :
dualmaster
Emperor
Things are looking good
Excellent call on getting marble, perfect time for it. Where are we placing nat'l wonders? NE in Rostov of course, do we want HE in Moscow (would be nice to have in coastal city but none of our coastal cities are too strong).
Next round we should get another city settled and move towards completing the library quest (completing quests makes me feel good inside). And (2?) bonus scientists at the GL would be a nice boost.
Tech: Lit next, then???? Alpha might be nice to try and get some back techs like priest and IW, drama could get us a cheap happy booster
Roster:
1) silk1976 - up now
2) cripp7
3) dualmaster
4) Trynthlas - just played
Excellent call on getting marble, perfect time for it. Where are we placing nat'l wonders? NE in Rostov of course, do we want HE in Moscow (would be nice to have in coastal city but none of our coastal cities are too strong).
Next round we should get another city settled and move towards completing the library quest (completing quests makes me feel good inside). And (2?) bonus scientists at the GL would be a nice boost.
Tech: Lit next, then???? Alpha might be nice to try and get some back techs like priest and IW, drama could get us a cheap happy booster
Roster:
1) silk1976 - up now
2) cripp7
3) dualmaster
4) Trynthlas - just played
silk1976
Building empire
pre-Preflight:
- Looks like cities are coming along nicely - most at their happy cap of 8, courthouses built in most cities, and cottages are growing.
- I'm becoming a big fan of the parthenon and statue of zues recently in my games.
- Since priesthood is only two turns to research, thinking we should tech it ourselves rather then depend on trading. This would also allow us to work a priest specialist to get things moving on getting a GP for confucian building. Although this depends on whether we want to make a run for the library quest.
Question - how many libraries do we need to complete the library quest? And do we want to try and have the GL before we complete the quest so that we can get the extra settled scientists?
I see the value of trying to b-line the library quest with the GL. Is that what we want to do?
- Looks like cities are coming along nicely - most at their happy cap of 8, courthouses built in most cities, and cottages are growing.
- I'm becoming a big fan of the parthenon and statue of zues recently in my games.
- Since priesthood is only two turns to research, thinking we should tech it ourselves rather then depend on trading. This would also allow us to work a priest specialist to get things moving on getting a GP for confucian building. Although this depends on whether we want to make a run for the library quest.
Question - how many libraries do we need to complete the library quest? And do we want to try and have the GL before we complete the quest so that we can get the extra settled scientists?
I see the value of trying to b-line the library quest with the GL. Is that what we want to do?
dualmaster
Emperor
It requires 9 libraries. Need to have GL built to get the extra scientists.
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