sivlardemalle said:
I do hope you are kidding?
Why would I be kidding? The statement was used to illustrate what I consider a flaw - I don't think the US is owed half of Europe, unless you use the Civ4 system. However...
In case you are not:
1. We would own America, cause we stole it from the native Americans (you are kind of our grandchildren, you will get the inheritage when we will be gone, untill that point it is our land).
Who is we? Because we took it from the native Americans, fair and square, who took it from the previous residents of these lands, fair and square. We beat the British to become independent, bought some of it from the French, beat Mexico for still more, until the nation stretched from sea to shining sea. I for one think the world is a better place for having this land be a nation created by European immigration, rather than be a land of tribalism occupied by people who HADN'T EVEN INVENTED THE BLOODY WHEEL AND WERE DRAGGING THEIR STUFF ON THE GROUND BEHIND THEM WHEN THEY MOVED.
2. Europeans don't appreciate it
You're right - you can stop the sentence right there. You don't appreciate it, not anything. You don't appreciate the US helping end WW1. You don't appreciate the US de-Nazifying Western Europe, going so far as to let the French Army, who fought the Americans and British far MORE than they did the Nazis and formed the infamous and traitorous Vichy regime, be the first into Paris. You don't appreciate the blood and treasure spent to help rebuild Europe and protect it from the expansionist Soviet Union, the country that before the War allied with the Nazi's to divide Eastern Europe. You don't appreciate the lives given to sustain West Berlin, which almost fell into Soviet hands were it not for the airlift to sustain them. You don't appreciate that the US engaged Soviet expansionism abroad to defeat it, where you were able to ignore it, and in fact march in the street with anti-US slogans and peacenik rallies borne of a culture of irresponsible angst.
Lately, you don't appreciate the faith of your forefathers that helped turn Europe from a mess into the country that spawned modernity, gave birth to the greatest nation and experiment the world has seen in the West, instead embracing statist secularism and passivity while your nations become mired in lazy neglect. Where are the great nations of Europe? Only the United Kingdom even tries anymore to be a truly great nation - more due to their leader and character than anything else. Where is mighty Germany, France, Spain, name a single GREAT NATION on that continent? They are all mired in hopeless abandon, with double digit unemployment and breaking under the weight of a hopeless welfare state. And to support the European designs for the welfare state, you have imported cheap labor from North Africa and other poor countries.
Your new Moorish invasion is of your own making. Reap the whirlwhind.
when Americans say we should suck up to them till eternity because 'they saved our asses in WW2'. Why? Because during the second world war America didn't get involved in the war untill Germany made the big mistake of torpedoing some American ships.
Wrong war chum, that was WW1 - the Luisitania. We didn't start either War. But we sure finished eh chap?
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So it wasn't like 'let us help those Europeans',
Are you kidding me? Roosevelt did everything in his power to aid Britain. Lend/Lease kept Britain alive when she was reeling. You think the Soviets were driving Russian trucks to the front? Think again...
it was more like: Germany+Japan is getting too powerfull (they allready posses a large part of Europe and now they are starting to shoot at us), let's destroy them. (For your information: the southern part of France was never taken,
Is this what they teach you in Europe? Southern France was the traitorous VICHY PUPPET. Good grief, they don't teach European history in Europe, you offer that as if the French army stood off the might Wehrmacht and forced a truce - the French GAVE UP, and they COLLABORATED with the Nazi's in forming a government in Vichy that spent the rest of the war resisting the allies.
neither was England, the germans had overrun us, but were not likely to be able to control such a big area (remember that the Russians made sure about half of the germans were fighting in Russia by the time America stepped in)).
The Soviets bled out the Nazi's in Russia, but the threat of invasion kept dozens of Nazi divisions and the Luftwaffe tied up in the West - without the Allies invasion in the West, and the bombing campaign against the Nazi homeland, the Soviets would have bled out as well, leaving an uncomfortable stalemate in the East.
Not saying that we shouldn't acknowledge that the help from the Americans made it easier to free Europe, but that does not equal eternal worship
.
Here's what you guys might try on for size - when a nation, a free nation, has saddled up to war to stand by your side, maybe you could return the favor one day and ride to war with us? You know, like now?
This reminds me of the time France got a nice 'SHUT UP, we saved your asses in WW2' when they said they didn't like the idea of invading Irak.
This is a very, very long topic - France was a proxy protector of Iraq, they were bascially bought by Saddam - but to state that invading Iraq and getting rid of that tyrant is something you just can't see yourself doing exposes the moral bankruptcy in Europe.
Anyway, hope you were joking
I was, we aren't owed Europe, all we asked for was enough land to bury our dead.
Venger
