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Since "Beyond the Sword" will be aiming at the post gunpowder-era...

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Fuzzz, Apr 23, 2007.

  1. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

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    What if you really liked that game? I consider myself a bit lazy for not upgrading to improve the performance of the game I play hours each week.
     
  2. Thrallia

    Thrallia Prodigal Staffer GOTM Staff

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    well, five years from now I won't be upset I need to upgrade my 5 year old RAM to play a game...I'd be more upset if games hadn't improved to the point that I needed to.

    he's not talking about lying about the minimum specs(he's running it on lower than minimum XP specs!!)...and its not a scam, nor was anyone punished...its standard practice to say what you need to play the game...its also standard practice to pretend that nothing else will ever be using up the RAM or cpu or anything when they quote those specs.

    Also, using winamp takes more memory than using the in-game custom music folder...if you don't like the soundtrack, use the in-game custom music folder options.

    Finally, the graphics aren't having any bad impacts on pameplay, all stability issues for most computers that meet the requirements to play the game pretty much were wiped out by the patches.
     
  3. Thrallia

    Thrallia Prodigal Staffer GOTM Staff

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    if $20-30 bucks to double the amount of your RAM and improve every aspect of your computer experience is a whole lot of money, why are you spending $50 bucks on a computer game in the first place?
     
  4. Fuzzz

    Fuzzz you

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    I never said I wasn't lazy
     
  5. T.A JONES

    T.A JONES Chieftain

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    No one was punished? OK I can't prove they were beacause most news was unrelated stock scamming but the boardroom was still emptied, the lead desingner did unexpectedly quit and Civ4 sufferd unprecedent tech troubles and dismal Warlord sales before that. It may be coincidence your right(not sarcastic) THe misleading specs wasn't based on what the OP said except to say," hey! the box lied man! Players with better systems then yours have had to go higher a long time ago because of it and now They are ready for the new Xpak and can only hope it dosn't set them back again with more slowdowns "( I think it won't, if it does its a death nail for a lot of players).

    The in-game folder is way harder to straighten playlists out on and it does add slowdowns to computers like the OPS(check CIv4's amount on the process function before and after you rig up 30 songs to the main file) .

    Theres nothing wrong with using winamp early on. Its let you skip songs repeat, rewind have multi playlists to choice from. Its far better.
    Late game is slow no mater what you use so mind aswell get used to and have solid tunes ready on a whim to cope with. If you knew how much memory Civ4 keeps stacking up after a while, youd know winamp is a insignificant to worsning gameplay at the point

    Oh, Ok so large maps or using many civs or playing average #Civs into the late age have no negative impact aslong as your pacthed up? WOuld you like a few thousands links that dispute this?. not one of them has the guy stating he has 256mb thats for sure. Most are wondering why there 1000mb and on up with latest g card is dragging on. Ya its the graphics all right you might try believeing it by playing one of the other Civ games one day. :)
     
  6. Reprisal

    Reprisal Chieftain

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    Upgrading your RAM is one of the cheapest things that can be done to improve performance... It's worth it just to get your computer running better all around.

    A gig of RAM costs, what, eighty dollars Canadian?
     
  7. Fuzzz

    Fuzzz you

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    That's still $20-30 more, just for one lousy game, isn't it?
     
  8. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

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    It remains to be seen if the game is lousy. I think that is the deciding factor.
     
  9. Thrallia

    Thrallia Prodigal Staffer GOTM Staff

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    ok...you're talking about Take2, not about Firaxis and the Civilization team...Take2's issues have nothing to do with their games, they have to do with being idiots that tried to do lots of illegal stuff with stocks, finances, and other things. The specs posted on the game box are accurate...if you don't have anything else running(including an OS), that's how they are misleading...and everyone does it, its SOP.


    The in-game folder doesn't really have a playlist...it just takes up less memory than using Civ AND winamp. You act as if I'm clueless about what I'm saying...I know exactly how much memory Civ uses...and I know that using winamp in addition to Civ uses more memory than just using Civ(obviously...) I also like winamp, I just don't use it when playing a game that has customizable music because then it uses more of my memory.

    Slowdown on later maps is common and will never get better...I said STABILITY issues are gone for the most part, on the machines that meet the requirements.

    I've played every civ game, every one of them lagged in the later games when playing with bigger maps(except Civ2 and Civ1). Its not the graphics causing it, the graphics use up memory, but a big part of it slowing down in the late game is the sheer amount of information the game is trying to keep track of. Sure, lowering the graphics helps, but you'll still have lag with graphics set as low as possible...its the size of the game that makes it so that it will likely never go away.
     
  10. Fuzzz

    Fuzzz you

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    I aso like winamp, but since I know my pc wouldn't be able to handle both winamp and cIV, I turn on the radio in my room.
     
  11. DrewBledsoe

    DrewBledsoe Veteran QB

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    I concur completely. Graphics card (unlike most pc games) is utterly unimportant (as long as its compatable) to gameplay speed in CIV IV. I have a completely basic graphics card, but recently upgraded from 1GB to 2GB RAM.

    The game used to lag terribly on huge maps post Astronomy, now it doesn't at all (with the exception TA Jones noted, that there is still a pretty horrific memory leak if you play the game for hours on end, this can be shown to be true by just saving, completely quitting out of the game, and reloading. It disappears immediately.....didn't I say that in post #2 of this thread ;) )

    I find the game to be very stable now, with just one "memory allocation bug" which occasionally occurs when the game incorrectly allocates memory to an autosave file, and crashes the game. Reloading a previously autosave has always worked in this case, with no reoccurance of the bug.

    I'll state again, the Civ IV is possibly the most RAM hungry pc game yet made, to play smoothly you need a decent sized chunk.
     
  12. T.A JONES

    T.A JONES Chieftain

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    Ive got no real quims with what you just said. First, Im guessin You havn't played Civ3 with that same computer you use to floss Civ4. THings change those annoyin waits are down to about 30 seconds tops for maps ranging mega "huge" with 400-500 cities to mybe a minute if lots of citys are taken over in one turn by chance. (Im talkin with a 3.2 processor. IN CIv3 memory past 512mb dosn't make much differnce for those turn times if you got a seprate videocard and a 3.0 proc.
    Nowadays the game looks like this. Its faster but uses better graphics with more units,techs yada yada . Hows that work? you know? Im hoping Civ4 can pull of the same with its new Xpak. Its possible if the graphics can be programmed to demand less
    To me logic says the larger map has more graphics more trees swayin in breeze more fish jumpin in the seas, more fruit fallin from the trees. More 3d tiles zoomin in an out, more clouds floatin about. More animations more static graphics more more more 3D.

    About Winny, I didn't mean to belittle you sorry . Winamp is a reward for upgrading thats what I said to the OP . IM not sure why you deny this and suggest adding the files to the Civ4 folder instead in a ideal solution. THe wide erray of listening options and newbie friendly playlist freedoms plus easy access in game options makes it the only choice when you got update to the rolls royce(which is needed anyway to play CIv4 flawlessly).

    Like you say, you know how much the Winamp takes in the process screen compared to Civ4 in midgame after say, 30 turns of mem pileup. Its nothin right?. Its better if you close a half dozen other useless processes using this guide of Whats whatthen it is to sacrifice good tunes on demand that amek the wait bearable.
    Civ4's 'programming' ... and graphics ;) have you waiting anyway. You mine aswell use a smidgen of space for better times while you wait . I Mean after you work out the difference those same songs would holdup running from your Civ4 in-game folder, its huge benift for the small cost of mem to use what Winamp brings to the table while your forced to wait on CIv4's space wasting problems

    Ohya Sorry for going on so
    T.A
     
  13. Thrallia

    Thrallia Prodigal Staffer GOTM Staff

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    Actually, I played Civ3 on a better computer(shortly after getting Civ4, my video card died and I've been using a lower spec laptop ever since). The reason it is faster than Civ4 now(although last I played Civ3, about a year ago) it took longer between turns than Civ4 does for me right now. It works because they used established, old technology. It isn't that it demands less, it is that technology has advanced to make the same demands seem proportionally less.

    Not quite, it is that the larger the map, the more memory is required to remember everything. No matter how big the world is, the screen shows the same amount of graphics...the slowdown is due to memory allocation for the stuff off-screen and that the AIs and civs are doing. When you zoom way out, yeah you'll have more slowdown due to graphics, but you can't play zoomed out to that point. At any point you can play, the memory requirements are the slowdown.

    Agreed regarding the music advantages of Winamp, but I'm not talking about the relative amount either, I'm talking about the total memory taken ;) If civ takes up 200MB of RAM and I use the in-game music...I'm using up 200MB of RAM, but if I am also using Winamp, I'm now using about 210MB...maybe not a big deal, but it can hamper the later game. I just use playlists that I don't care what song comes up next(movie soundtracks/Final Fantasy music...its all good) and my music actually doesn't hang while waiting for the turn to finish.

    Why is Civ4's programming more time-consuming? Simple...because they wrote the entire game in C++ and Python....including the graphics engine. Why? To make it easier to mod. It makes it run slower than using a licenced graphics engine or using a different language than C++ and Python.

    If anything, it is the fault of the modders for wanting a more accessible framework ;)
     
  14. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Chieftain

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    I have a piece of crap vidcard in my laptop (who doesnt? :p ), and the game was slow. I bought a meg of ram for around 50 dollars. It was a GREAT investment.

    1. The game worked fine up to standard size endwar, then lagged a little.

    2. Everything my computer did, and I mean everything from booting to surfing the web, got MUCH faster.

    3. Everything was much more better.

    If I wasn't so lazy, or concerned about the additional heat generated, I'd upgrade the cards again.



    Sorry, peaceniks, but it does not seem that the expansion focuses on peace.
    (Source: http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/beyondthesword/)
    "The expansion will focus on the late-game time periods after the invention of gunpowder and will deliver 12 challenging and decidedly different scenarios created by the development team at Firaxis Games, as well as some esteemed members of the Civilization Fan Community. Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword will also include 10 new civilizations, 16 new leaders, 5 new wonders, and a variety of new units that will offer even more fun and exciting ways for players to expand their civilization's power as they strive for world domination."
    (Source: http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/beyondthesword/)


    Don't go crying in your granola just yet, I've read about earlier espionage and other peace (so-called) stuff.


    Damn those modders.
     
  15. Danielos

    Danielos Chieftain

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    It´s better to be 3-4 years behind the technological progress. Then you will get everything cheap. I usually buy games from 2002-2004 at the moment. They work on my computer and are cheap.

    2007 games I will be able to play around 2010-2011. Looking forward to it! :D
     
  16. King Flevance

    King Flevance Chieftain

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    Fuzz, I would suggest buying a 512MB stick of RAM if youare short on cash. Buying another 256 isn't going to last you long until you have to go buy more. It may look cheaper now but it isn't. If you are going to commit money towards RAM, you should really buy either a 512, or better a Gig stick. As each step up is actually more useful and requires you to buy RAM again soon the less you spend.

    I run on 760MB of RAM and I can play Huge maps to the end. But my video card is PCI-E 256MB. So it is really carrying me through it, not my ram. I still get slowdown in the late game of course but we are talking about 60-120 secs for it to come back to being my turn.

    The thing is, running at 256 - you won't be upgrading for just 1 game. If you go shopping for games you will quickly find you don't meet the specs to ANY new games coming out. You won't be able to run alot of games that have been out for over a couple years.
    Alot of games now require an AGP because we have entered the world of 3-D graphics. Any game that requires 256 RAM also requires no video card for the most part. Now with PCI-E coming out AGP will slowly be outdated in the next few years. All new machines that come out now always have at least 512MB of RAM. Most places that allow you to build your own PC only allow you to go as low as 1 512MB stick on ram. I know because I usually skimp on RAM when I buy PCs because they overcharge for it most places when it comes pre-built. Usually when buying a pre-built I just pay attention to the mobo and processor. Sometimes HD because partitioning is a pain in the ass.
     
  17. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

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    Heh, this is usually my strategy as well. If you buy games after their sequels come out, they are usually 50-75% off.
    Some games are worth getting asap, though.
     
  18. sabo

    sabo My Ancestors were Vikings

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    Not true, I have only 1 gig of RAM and huge maps run just about as well as large maps. (of course I have a video card with 512 megs of video memory, that might have something to do with it) :)
     
  19. sabo

    sabo My Ancestors were Vikings

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    Not true, I have only 1 gig of RAM and huge maps run just about as well as large maps. (of course I have a video card with 512 megs of video memory, that might have something to do with it) :)

    BTW I don't think BTS you will start out the same as the late games in CIv 4, I mean all the units, trade routes, and diplomacy checks, that's what takes a while in the game. I don't think you'll start with as many of this threads open in BTS

    OOPS Double post
     
  20. mudphud

    mudphud Chieftain

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    I really don't think that system requirements are going to hurt sales of the xpack significantly. Compared to many current games the requirements are pretty tame. The OP has stated that he doesn't want to upgrade his computer for one game but if you want play any game that is currently being released you will need a more powerful system. Many people aren't interested in using their computer to play games and for internet and word processing 256mb will probably get you by (although I would guess that overall performance will improve if you upgrade the memory).

    It is simply unreasonable to expect that current releases will run nicely (or at all) with 256mb RAM. Firaxis doesn't want to get panned in the reviews for having terrible graphics that are generations too old. Vista requires at least 512mb and most reviews seem to indicate that you really should have 2gb for it.

    My point = don't blame software manufactures for not catering to out of date computers when you are in the minority. Either suck it up and upgrade or don't buy the game just realize you aren't going to get a lot of sympathy.
     

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