Since G&K, AI army ''dance'' in front of my cities

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by omnishakira, Jul 9, 2012.

  1. Sporaticus

    Sporaticus Drooling Barbarian

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    I've seen this also. Unless I am at war, and they are blocking off a food source, I ignore them. If it is Dido, I instruct my defenders to fold up dollar bills and throw them off the battlements so she will keep it up......
     
  2. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

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    This is, oddly, a case of the improved tactical AI - the AI is now able to marshall armies in one place.

    Which means that, applying AI logic, where it used to just send one unit to randomly dance around your cities, it will now send a whole army to do the same thing...
     
  3. Malachi256

    Malachi256 Prince

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    I had Japan dance his invasion force at the edge of my territory (and sometimes in my territory - we had been at war for millennia) in a recent game. He never managed to really strike at my city, he just lost tons of units. It was like a shooting gallery, he'd move units into shooting range, then back out - pretty ridiculous really.

    Clearly he was trying to maneuver for an opening and just failed to ever find it. The problem is that the tactics never "moved on" - he needed to get dominance of a nearby bay in order to move on my city with force (units by both land and sea), but he never did that. His other options would've been to just give up on that particular target/tactic and try something else, but he never did that either.


    There are too many terrain situations that just crumble the military AI. Unfortunate, really.
     
  4. Xotite potancev

    Xotite potancev Chieftain

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    Had Spain do a similar thing never DOWed but packs of troops would turn up near the border then wander off it really did look like, OK mass for war... opps they built 3 more units run away..ok were tougher now mass...does give me a chuckle thinking of the Spanish army doing the Macarena on my border :)
     
  5. Zenstrive

    Zenstrive Ocean King

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    I played as Arab in King, Large Pangea, handpicked civs. I chose Attila and Genghis just to see if they can survive the new civs.

    But as bad luck, they were my neighbours and declared war early (turn 90 or something). Mongol first and then Hun three turns later. Mongol seems to troll me with their "dancing" units that I eat first with archers.
    After Hun declared war, all of sudden Mongols put out like seven axeman, six archers, and took my third city while HUn just danced their battering rams around to be trampled by my cities and archers.

    I decided to start another game :D
     
  6. omnishakira

    omnishakira Warlord

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    I'm not so sure how advanced the AI is thinking. It seems it's simply trying to find an undefended city.

    Yes but it's pretty stupid. I cant do anything but watch his army dancing around until it decides to attack or backoff. Im not an online expert but im pretty sure that if i start dancing around with 4 catapult and 7 swordmen in front of a human base, he will tell me to gtfo or he will declare war on me.

    I doubt the effect of stopping you from expanding or keeping you occupied is part of it's intended plan. Still, the fact that it seems to have a plan is pretty good :)

    It's not smart, its just another way of cheating. Unless they allow me to do it too. Even if they did allowed me to, I still think it would be stupid. Fair and stupid is already better though

    Edit: I wonder, is this behavior consistent or does it only happen sometimes?

    Sometimes, fortunatly.
     
  7. omnishakira

    omnishakira Warlord

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    Yeah, what you're complaining about is the AI being smart.

    It's not smart, he uses cheating (he abuse the fact that human player doesnt have a button) to get the best possible angle. There's nothing smart in that, it's just another way to make the AI less horrible without actually working on it

    The AI should bring 1-2 scouts, decide where to send his army and then, send his units. And if there's a massive power change on your side (ex : you buy a lot of units because you saw his army coming with a scout), then he should just retreat home.
     
  8. omnishakira

    omnishakira Warlord

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    Oh and when you have open border with it it's even more stupid. He literally walk around in your borders with 15 units and you have to follow him loool

    A button ''I saw your army around my cities, are you declaring war on me ?'' is needed badly.
     
  9. TPQ

    TPQ Cogito Ergo Civ

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    I haven't seen this in war so far as I've always been the agressor, but I did see it in peace time when I had OB with Genghis.

    Genghis and I had been friends for a couple of hundred turns (Epic speed) and at one point he moved his entire army into my territory and started to dance them around just as you describe!

    It was odd and slightly hypnotic to watch 20 units all move at once each time after I pressed "end turn" for about 15 turns.

    Nothing ever came of it and by the time his troops originally turned up I had pretty much finished all my improvements for the era, so it'd didn't really have any impact.

    One thing I did do was sell Genghis about half my GPT for his lump sum gold after the first few turns of his dancing troops, just in case he fancied declaring war, but it was apparently unnecessary.

    Agreed! This has been missing for far too long.
     
  10. Xotite potancev

    Xotite potancev Chieftain

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    Damn i am definatley not sneaky enough never though of doing this :lol:
     
  11. Callonia

    Callonia Deity

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    Though, I wonder why the AI is willing to march through the uncontrolled wilderness and it's infested with barbarians. Far far distance, a distance which I won't even be willing to march through unless I somehow truly hated the person and he must die.

    But, I'm wondering why they're preferring to do that instead of killing off their neighbors and come after me eventually. I suspect the AI doesn't suffer from laziness. hrm.
     
  12. Magil

    Magil Monarch

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    Actually something I noticed is when my friend Japan was dancing a lot of units around my borders for a while, is that while I initially suspected he was about to attack me, I eventually figured out that I needed to open borders, at which point Japan marched through my lands to go attack Austria. It may be a pathfinding issue.

    It would be nice to have some of the options the AI has, though, other than just "don't settle new cities near us." I'd also like "stop converting my cities," and "you have a lot of units near my borders," etc.
     
  13. Callonia

    Callonia Deity

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    That's very good point actually. Ai don't have enough requests to ask of you.

    If they asked me if they could pass on through my territory to put the world of hurt on someone, I would accept easily most of the times unless I have pressing interests to not allow them through my territory xD
     
  14. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    First I've hard of this. Do you have open borders with said AI? And if it lasts multiple turns as you said, open borders expire after 30, you should have been able to cancel it and force them to attack from outside your borders.

    As for 'dancing' I've only observed this behavior during war. The AI will position its ranged and melee units and then move in. It wil sometimes move their ranged units around to get into firing range if terrain isn't flat and or if it needs to be on hills or move closer due to forest/hills blocking.

    Here's an example of what I mean. In this case, my scouts spotted AI attacking another AI.

     
  15. AriochIV

    AriochIV Colonial Ninja

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    I've definitely seen the AI move armies through my territory on the way to attack someone else, many times. That's mainly where I've gotten a very good look at its movement style. It will move the slower units in a group, then the faster ones forward ahead to scout, then draw them back again into one mass. But the faster ones often block the slower ones, so it takes them 2-3 times as long to move a certain distance as it should... they average like one hex per turn, even when there are roads.
     
  16. wetroofwoof

    wetroofwoof Chieftain

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    This is a new thing in G&K from what I've seen. When the AI actually DOWS its units are forced outside of your territory because open borders canceled. I'm confused why no one mentioned this.

    So I did notice the AI will come into my territory and dance around like you said. It seems a bug and pointless. It lessens the effectiveness of a sneak attack in some cases. Also I find it invasive of my space. maybe it's trying to gain unit info before the actual DOW to decide if to attack or not, but I seriously doubt this.
     
  17. Calder

    Calder Warlord

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    I noticed this behaviour in my current game and found a peaceful solution due to the fact that this army had come a long way and there were two other civilizations I wanted to conquer first before aiming at them and getting a premature diplo hit. They hadn't declared war as they eventually saw I also had a formidable army which had to cancel orders and retreat back to my territory to scout their movements at which time I promptly denounced them. Two turns later every one else in the game had denounced them also, their return denouncement of me had fallenl on deaf ears and after seeing that army retreat back to their homeland I was able to concentrate on my attack with a closer neighbour.
     
  18. CYZ

    CYZ Toileteer

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    Well, I wouldn't call it cheating since it isn't really intended I guess. It should seem easy enough to implement code so the AI will either stop or totally change his plans if it can't find an opening for a long time.
     
  19. Babri

    Babri Emperor

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    One of the easier tactic I found was to bribe the dancing army AI to attack another player. That way they won't bother u for a while.
     
  20. King_Course

    King_Course Prince

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    The dancing happens, when the AI want to attack you, but you place military units up front in enough numbers for it to think attacking here is a bad idea.

    So if it moves and you follow their units you are basically keeping the dance up yourself.

    You can try to move away, and the Civ will probably wardec you.

    I had a game where Russia was very aggressive, and a chokepoint where I put a citadel and some troops. And full honor which I was hoping to take advantage of. But Russia didn't wardec me again, not untill I had moved my troops away to engage a Civ on another border, she attacked immediately.
     

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