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Single Player bugs and crashes v37 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of December 2016

Discussion in 'Bugs and Crashes' started by Dancing Hoskuld, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    Please report all single player bugs and crashes for the SVN version of C2C here. (release v37 = SVN Revision 9402)

    If you are using the download version of Caveman2Cosmos v37 please use the other thread.

    To assist us in fixing the problem please include the version of C2C you are playing.

    If the bug involved a repeatable "Crash to Desktop" (CTD) or similar please include
    • a save and description of how to reproduce the crash
    • if your mods folder is not Caveman2Cosmos please state what it is when posting a save to help the modders and save them time when trying to identify the problem.
    • the MiniDump.dmp file. It is found in your Beyond the Sword folder that contains the Mods file containing Caveman2Cosmos. IE the folder that contains the BeyondTheSword.exe file.
    If the bug includes error messages then the Python.Err file in the logs folder would be useful also. It can be found in the same location as the the Saves folder containing your save games.

    A screen shot.

    Basically as much information as you can that will help us find the problem[/INDENT]

    If you saw the AI doing something stupid/unoptimal/otherwise bad make sure your BBAI logging is set to 3 in the BUG options. Then, post a savegame exhibiting the behavior as well as the BBAI log, found in the Documents/My Games/Beyond the Sword/Logs folder.

    How to turn on logging.

    In the Civ 4 INI file, located in Documents/My Games/Beyond the Sword, there are some logging options. Make sure they look like this.
    Code:
    ; Enable the logging system
    LoggingEnabled = 1
    
    ; Enable synchronization logging
    SynchLog = 1
    
    ; Overwrite old network and message logs
    OverwriteLogs = 1
    
    ; Enable rand event logging
    RandLog = 0
    
    ; Enable message logging
    MessageLog = 1
    Note: You only need to have RandLogs on if you are playing Multiplayer, otherwise just leave that off (thx Cyrusfan)


    How to turn on the AI logging.

    The AI logging is turned on in the BUG options screens. It is the BBAI log mentioned on the Logs page. It writes to the same folder as the other logs creating a BBAI.log file there.

    Known issues

     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  2. Septimius

    Septimius Chieftain

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    This game is from before v37, but I keep updating it to the present SVN. I haven't included savegame and all that stuff, because these are more general observations. I'll be happy to do all that jazz if you're interested.

    I started the game fairly recently, maybe a month ago:


    1. I start on deity with the nightmare mode turned on, but after some time a message pops up that the difficulty of the game has been turned down - this happens every game I start, without the flexible difficulty turned on (I've noticed it seems to be turned on anyway in the BUG options, so maybe that's a small bug?) - I did this because I wanted a really damn challenging game, now that I've overcome my fear of the animal kingdom.
    It feels like the game is too easy in this mode, but then that migth be because it's been auto-turned down by flexible difficulty and nightmare has stopped working - not sure...

    I'm playing the game on the largest map size I could get, slowest era setting and still I'm like 20 pts ahead of the closest competition and my culture border spread is so much greater than theirs.


    2. On this level of difficulty (which might not be working as intended) the AI has problems with the animals and the tech they should be getting from them. Basically I think they aren't hunting enough - a winning game for me always consists of succesful hunting and my hunters are monsters by now, capable of taking out low level barbarian cities on their own. My tech is racing ahead because I've got a lot of animal types and always beeline straight for tech increases, like elders' hut (the +25% tech building). In my opinion the AI should have it as a top priority to spam out hunters in the early ages. With a limit of 5, that should be a no brainer. But then I don't know if they get tech points the same way as the player does?

    The culture and tech bonus for animals seem somewhat OP, whereas the food & production plus optional gold and culture bonus (for some animals) are fairly useless (except for bears that give you 8 gold). They've become more useful as you increased the gold cost of the longest eras (and such a nice change! In earlier games I just used to buy my way out of everything, but now I have to keep a very close eye to my income or risk suddenly losing all my best units), but it still seems like these are fairly unimportant compared to the culture/science bonus. With five hunters out and after a while five great hunters, you get a LOT of animals in (I use the teleporting animals, because otherwise my economy would be completely ruined by the cost of returning them).
    You can easily add like 40 science and 80 culture to your city each turn from hunting alone.


    3. I've no idea how many free units I can actually have within my own civ borders? Right now it seems infinite, but I'm sure there's a limit. I've used it to stock up on every kind of animal and keep a couple of the special ones around. Which makes for A LOT of units in my capital... But then maybe you removed the cost for animals completely? I haven't noticed it said in any of the SVN.... I think it's appropriate if you did, because with no price for them, it makes it more fun / actually worth it to play without the teleporting animals option.

    Also it seems like units like various policemen, which say "1 gold upkeep", doesn't cost me anything - at least early game (I haven't even researched tribalism yet), which is great or the crime rate would've gone through the roof. With the amount of great hunters I've been able to add to my city, it grows very fast and crime is a constant worry, but something I can control. If I had to pay six gold extra each turn for the policemen I've got hanging around, my economy would be pretty bad - but then I've been able to run at 100% science all of the time, so maybe it should be implemented, just so you're forced to increase your gold income - or just not use those great hunters as food increasers.


    4. My watchers get sentry to begin with? Not sure if this is from my civilization (I'm the Aztec in this game), but I've noticed it in other games. I don't think policemen type units should be good scouts, so this should really be removed from them...
    Also, with all the info coming in, it's very hard to spot that a criminal has been found, especially since all the animals I keep around can see him for some reason... Maybe include a special sound for found criminals? And remove captured animals ability to spot anything.


    5. Make religion techs worth researching on their own. One of the things that bother me in this game, is I'm so far ahead of the competition that they haven't taken the early religions yet. I don't want the early ones, but want to go for something more Aztec appropriate (and I've turned on only one active religion per civ option - maybe it's making the ai avoid religion? Dunno... Too early to tell). But I'm not interested in researching those religion techs then, because they are requisite for nothing and contain no improvements or the like. Maybe make them prerequisite for later religion techs? Or give them some sort of useful building (+1 something to an existing building maybe? Something low key or fitting to the religion). Right now it seems like they're just dead leaves on the tech tree - unless of course you want to go for that specific religion. And if other civs have already taken them, then there's no reason at all to waste the tech on them - except of course to make the tech tree look nice and clean.


    6. Animals seem to become too easy pretty quickly. With one experience upgrade and hunting tradition, your trackers are completely up to the task of murdering just about everything, except maybe the biggest and oldest of the lot. This means that the hunter upgrade becomes pretty useless - because why upgrade your OP units to something even more OP? I'd say increase their strength across the board and have the player be more careful in what he attacks - or reduce the hunting ability bonus.


    7. Maybe remove hunters ability to attack cities? They get so extreme amounts of xp in the long run, that they can beat up pretty much any military unit without any experience and become barbarian civ killers (they can't hurt the AI players cities, thankfully).


    I keep starting new games because of updates to the SVN that I want to try out in all their glory, so I haven't reached the classic era yet. One game I dropped was because of bears spawning everywhere near me, murdering all the wildlife and killing anything that went outside of my cultural borders. By 8000 BC on the slowest speed, I hadn't even gotten near to tribalism, so I chose to drop that game, but somehow it felt more fun to really struggle and fall far behind the others, than this current roflstomp.

    Still loving the game though - it's so much better than anything else that's being made these days, as I'm genuinely interested in everything I build and do. On the slowest speeds it becomes a bit of a chore often, but that's ok - it's my choice. I'll get back to you if I spot more stuff. And let me know if you want my savegame, log etc.
     
  3. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    You've discovered the cause behind this. Not a bug really, just poor design to include an option in both the main game options and in the BUG options. Perhaps we should remove the option from the main game options list entirely and just leave it for BUG options to manage... It's available there whether you use the main game option or not.

    I've noticed they aren't being as successful at hunting in this version and with my options. They DO consider hunters incredibly important, almost too much so. But why they are failing to hunt WELL is another matter to investigate. What they are doing with their animals I'm not 100% sure... they are using them, for buildings if possible. After that I don't know what they are using them on but I can only assume the science and culture if possible. I've not been using them for this purpose and I'm still getting ahead of the AI on Immortal difficulty, beating them to tribalism. So something is not right about their hunting somewhere.

    Yes.

    Unfortunately, I think this is side-effect of the above shift to have animals remove the costs of upkeep. It's adding free units, and it seems to be trending towards more free than the animals themselves slightly, adding a margin of free units that these first LE units are falling under the benefits of. It's going to take some further working on I think.

    They get that on purpose, not because they are scouts but because early LE units start off evolving from the role of 'lookout'. Think from the smaller groups who setup a night watch or a lookout post. That is the first form of LE unit. After a while they lose that side of things really.

    I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Some may get some ability in this due to combat class. Are you using Hide and Seek? If so, they aren't going to be all that useful at this with default values. But they could still have some use. Animals sense alarming things in their environment that people may not. Paying attention to their behavior can help to provide warning.

    Religion techs are very purposefully dead end so that those civs that don't reach for them don't have to waste any research on a distraction tech, giving a benefit to ignoring the religion tech if you want to get ahead in other ways instead and giving those civs that didn't grab for it an opportunity to catch up a little.

    On Size Matters this is much more challenging as some herds can reach pretty epic strength levels. Either way, even on the core, just consider the added strength to be not so much for taking down animals as much as it is for making the unit more survivable on its own against things like barbs and neanders, making it more likely to benefit from solo hunting where it can excell at doing what it's intended to without being overly threatened by accidentally shoring up next to a dangerous barb.

    If the hunter is THAT good, why not let them? They do get a hefty penalty for attacking cities and I've lost my share of highly developed master hunters trying to take the risk of getting rid of barb cities the 'easy' way. It's a way to bait players into a very dangerous risk of a highly valued asset.
     
  4. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    5. No! It makes things even worse for the AI. Currently they wont study a religion tech if that religion has been founded which is what we want. Putting anything in the tech or making it lead elsewhere means they will study it and fall further behind. Basically - "been there done that" and it was bad ;)

    If you are playing with Limited Religions, I think, nations will only try and research their favorite religion ignoring all others.

    7. I am reviewing what promotions a hunter can get at the moment. All the ones they should get should make them better against animals and useless against other units and cities.
     
  5. SteelSterling

    SteelSterling Chieftain

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    I'm using SVN 9409 but when I hover over the flag it still shows SVN 9396 and Pre V37. Everything else seems to work okay however.
     
  6. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Strange... I wonder if there's something that needs changed in the code to reflect the version that I'm unaware of because Koshling or Alberts2 always did that step.
     
  7. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    The SVN version number in the hover over is done in the dll and does not change if non-dll changes are made eg only XML changes.

    The Pre v37 label is done in the XML somewhere. SO does it usually or at least he did for v36.
     
  8. SteelSterling

    SteelSterling Chieftain

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    Okay, just a little paranoid since I had problems with the game before and wanted to nip things in the bud. Thought I saw one of the SVN updates was to change the hover to pre V38 but maybe not.. Thanks.
     
  9. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    He stated he'd already done this and there was a commit with the note that said it had been done. hmm...
     
  10. lightning551

    lightning551 Chieftain

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    Not sure if its a bug but every time my war galleys fight birds and win they get an automatic promotion. This seems a bit like overkill as I have yet to lose one to the birds.
     
  11. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I just figured out what is happening with this. If a unit has a really high chance to get out of the fight alive and you still kill it you have that really high chance to get a battlefield promotion. I forgot to factor in when this is the case but first strikes against low health overcome this (you can't withdraw from the damage of a first strike.) I'll have to factor first and stealth strikes into the equation now for odds on those.
     
  12. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    That, or something similar, might also explain why I always get around 10 XP when I take out pigeons in my modmod.
    Some stat details for pigeons in modmod: It has early withdrawal 80%; withdrawal chance 70%, dodge percent 45%, -130% Damage, 10% repel (yeah, a bit strange, it comes from combatclass_animal_herding) and 10% overrun chance.
     
  13. lightning551

    lightning551 Chieftain

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    That would explain it. I knew the withdraw chance caused issues like that but didn't realize this was the same thing. I started my war galleys with the first strike promotion and the birds rarely survive.
    But that would explain why my normal galleys aren't raking in the promotions. They have withdraw instead.
     
  14. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Are you using dynamic XP or not?
     
  15. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    Nope actually its done in Python . .

    here is what i see?? modVersion = "Vpre38" / / /
     
  16. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    I am, dynamic XP on.
     
  17. SteelSterling

    SteelSterling Chieftain

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    So I deleted my Caveman2Cosmos folder and downloaded a fresh install using svn://svn.code.sf.net/p/caveman2cosmos/code/trunk. The only thing I kept was my user settings folder. It still shows my version as pre V37 and 9396. I deleted everything in my cache and started a new game.
     
  18. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Because you kept your Old user settings folder. Use the default User settings for a fresh install of v37. Then on your 1st turn go into BUG and reset all your favorite settings. Then Save game and then save a 2nd time to lock in the new User Settings to your preferences. Your Old User settings folder contains outdated files that is causing your problem.

    But as T-brd has explained, when you Mouse over your Flag the SVN version Shown Will Be the Last svn version that had a DLL change. Which was SVN 9396. All svn version from 9397 thru the current 9310 Including the SVN 9402 (The Official Release version of 37) will show 9396 becuase the DLL has not changed since SVN 9396. Understand now? :)

    JosEPh
     
  19. SteelSterling

    SteelSterling Chieftain

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    Yes, thanks!
     
  20. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Do me a favor and turn it off and see if you still have the same issues. I've modified XP gain a lot on the core anyhow and I really don't advocate dynamic XP anymore. It pretty much now only means you can get a lot less XP and that's about it imo. Tough battles still give you more XP without Dynamic XP so its tool tip is a little off on the assumption that the core system doesn't operate the same way, just under somewhat different math. There's probably something strange taking place there, just as you pointed out so I'll take a look at that coding.

    Great diagnosis work! Thanks! I was stumped.
     

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