Single Player bugs and crashes v37 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of December 2016

[Raledon]

Quality up is a bit bugged when in conjunction with random promotions, and possibly without.
One of my units attacked another unit, and received the SideStep promotion. According to the log, as it got the promotion, it lost the pre-requisite for the +might, thus getting a refund on that. As the unit "level" went down (from losing might up), it lost its quality up promotion.
A turn after, it got the ability to place the promotions back, but couldn't get the quality up. It could, however, take multiple types of might.
I've attached a SS with a turn after the lost promotions, and the save to reproduce the bug.
To reproduce the bug, attack the skirmisher with noble 8, located near hadrumetum. It will lose its promotions, dropping from a power of 200 to power of 18.
*note- the quality up in the SS is "Legendary Prowess", the best of the current promotions it possess. I didn't get the option to get any of the other ones.

While not directly relevant, in terms of balance it seems strange that it's not that hard to get my mounted infantry to powers of 200-300, to the point they take on tanks, guerillas and pretty much anything else.

Spoiler :

 

[Thunderbrd]

Quality up is a bit bugged when in conjunction with random promotions, and possibly without.
One of my units attacked another unit, and received the SideStep promotion. According to the log, as it got the promotion, it lost the pre-requisite for the +might, thus getting a refund on that. As the unit "level" went down (from losing might up), it lost its quality up promotion.
A turn after, it got the ability to place the promotions back, but couldn't get the quality up. It could, however, take multiple types of might.
I've attached a SS with a turn after the lost promotions, and the save to reproduce the bug.
To reproduce the bug, attack the skirmisher with noble 8, located near hadrumetum. It will lose its promotions, dropping from a power of 200 to power of 18.
*note- the quality up in the SS is "Legendary Prowess", the best of the current promotions it possess. I didn't get the option to get any of the other ones.

While not directly relevant, in terms of balance it seems strange that it's not that hard to get my mounted infantry to powers of 200-300, to the point they take on tanks, guerillas and pretty much anything else.

Spoiler :

View attachment 484156

Are you playing SM alone or are you on SM uncut?

Oddly, level cannot be reduced (or perhaps it can and that's the incorrect assumption here) once earned. How the unit lost any prereq for its +might promotion is just as strange. It also seems like it may be an issue with you reaching a capped quality level... maybe.

So you've massively merged AND quality enhanced the mounted infantry as much as possible and the enemy can't counter that with merged tanks? hmm... I might have to see how you've made this happen so easily. I'll take a look at this save tomorrow.

 

[Thunderbrd]

That would be true if the more modern buildings did not provide more money or hammers so that the AI will build them before the earlier ones go obsolete.

Are we considering what newly founded cities would run up against if the earlier ones went obsolete? Or if you started the game, say, in the modern era?

You said the earlier ones would not go obsolete ever right? So that way the more advanced ones could eventually be built somewhere? But if the early ones don't obsolete, then the only benefit you're really getting from the more advanced buildings is either just MORE of a resource you already have (which ONLY works if the whole system is more volumetric) or are just getting more yields/commerces from their operations.

Don't get me wrong, I was all for looking down this road because it seemed to be a workable solution on paper but I've been thinking it through and I think there are some problems with it in the end.

Again, I withhold my official proposal on how to address all this until we have a better moment to focus on this as our developmental project.

BTW, made some adjustments to wonder costs across the board because I agree with your assessment about them being too expensive. I've been thinking this ever since the recosting project was underway. The multipliers were just too high. Even SO had been complaining about the amount of turns to build wondrous buildings.

 

[Raledon]

Are you playing SM alone or are you on SM uncut?

Oddly, level cannot be reduced (or perhaps it can and that's the incorrect assumption here) once earned. How the unit lost any prereq for its +might promotion is just as strange. It also seems like it may be an issue with you reaching a capped quality level... maybe.

So you've massively merged AND quality enhanced the mounted infantry as much as possible and the enemy can't counter that with merged tanks? hmm... I might have to see how you've made this happen so easily. I'll take a look at this save tomorrow.

SM alone, no uncut.

I haven't reached the level cap, as I have an even higher level one. By itself, that doesn't seem to be an issue.

In regards to how I got to this point:
mounted infantry started with roughly 35-40 points of xp (due to it counting as both melee and mounted, it gets xp from both sources). combining it twice, and giving it the quality up promotion at level 7, grants it a base power of 27 (before might). Combining it with a lord, the unit will have +100% xp and blitz with the right promotions. At this point, it's strong enough to attack and kill multiple units each turn. If you have an herbalist somewhere, it can quickly return to it and heal back to full, and go back to the front lines. The way from there to immortality is a short one.
At the point we are talking about, the unit has 19 base strength (8+11 from might), 2 merges and 4 upgrades. A light tank (power 40) would require 4 merges/upgrades to be somewhere close to it



On another note- certain heroes have both the option of being added to a city as a "military instructor" and as a "great military instructor" (for example, Pastene can do that in my capital). Considering the second is a better form of the first, there's no reason for both of them.

EDIT: my brother just sent a great merchant on a trade mission. According to him, he received 544K gold. He is in the middle of the middle ages (Researching stained glass ATM), and the opponent is at around the same era (researching charters).
This amount seems to be on the "too high" side, compared to what other great people grant.

 

[Thunderbrd]

In regards to how I got to this point:
mounted infantry started with roughly 35-40 points of xp (due to it counting as both melee and mounted, it gets xp from both sources). combining it twice, and giving it the quality up promotion at level 7, grants it a base power of 27 (before might). Combining it with a lord, the unit will have +100% xp and blitz with the right promotions. At this point, it's strong enough to attack and kill multiple units each turn. If you have an herbalist somewhere, it can quickly return to it and heal back to full, and go back to the front lines. The way from there to immortality is a short one.
At the point we are talking about, the unit has 19 base strength (8+11 from might), 2 merges and 4 upgrades. A light tank (power 40) would require 4 merges/upgrades to be somewhere close to it

If you really consider what the quality promotions and might promotions mean, I don't think you're looking at an illogical conclusion as to combat result comparisons. The base is still 19 and 40 (and the 40 hasn't taken any might promotions yet.) Put the tanks through the same routines and you'll get a hell of a lot more than 200 str.

There are also some combat mod considerations that I simply haven't been able to add to the final equation yet. Without equipment (particularly in this case puncture vs armor values) you won't really see some of the final factors in play that will make the envisioning of this sort of scenario complete. The problem with the mounted infantry taking on tanks is that they really can't do enough damage to hurt the tanks much based on the weapons they have. With equipment in play, the strength differential would definitely not be everything.

From a game balance perspective, the problem is more that the AI hasn't figured out that it needs to counter your approach with a specific type of unit designed to do so. Eventually, the AI should be taught to do this, and how.

On another note- certain heroes have both the option of being added to a city as a "military instructor" and as a "great military instructor" (for example, Pastene can do that in my capital). Considering the second is a better form of the first, there's no reason for both of them.

True but I'm really not going to spend the time auditing all that and I'm sure not many would. There have been some discussions about making hero options more limited to either the hero or the promotions he/she earns. Maybe if that ever becomes the project of the day we'd take a moment to address that as well.

EDIT: my brother just sent a great merchant on a trade mission. According to him, he received 544K gold. He is in the middle of the middle ages (Researching stained glass ATM), and the opponent is at around the same era (researching charters).
This amount seems to be on the "too high" side, compared to what other great people grant.

Noted. The trade mission values are scheduled for a review as one of the next tasks anyhow. They'll be reigned in a bit, particularly on the multipliers many of them get for trading with an opponent capital.

 

[irishhombre]

I think there might an issue with the Cleopatra's Needle wonder. Everytime the city is almost finished, the game crashes. I am running SVN 9800 and Toffer's Interface Overhaul WIP. I included my latest save.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I think there might an issue with the Cleopatra's Needle wonder. Everytime the city is almost finished, the game crashes. I am running SVN 9800 and Toffer's Interface Overhaul WIP. I included my latest save.

I'll take a look at the crash as soon as possible.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Just a note that I have built Cleopatra's Needle successfully in my last ten or more test runs without a problem. Which suggests that if it is the source of the problem then it is not the building by itself but in combination with something else.

The Python that runs for it runs after it is built adding the building to two other cities.

 

[irishhombre]

I made sure it was Cleopatra's Needle by removing it from the build queue before it finished and it did not crash.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I think there might an issue with the Cleopatra's Needle wonder. Everytime the city is almost finished, the game crashes. I am running SVN 9800 and Toffer's Interface Overhaul WIP. I included my latest save.

Doesn't crash for me so it has to be some interaction between the Needle and Toffer's interface.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I didn't realize that Toffer's interface was being used. He changes a lot of the Python so perhaps it is a bad merge of the wonder code.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Quality up is a bit bugged when in conjunction with random promotions, and possibly without.
One of my units attacked another unit, and received the SideStep promotion. According to the log, as it got the promotion, it lost the pre-requisite for the +might, thus getting a refund on that. As the unit "level" went down (from losing might up), it lost its quality up promotion.
A turn after, it got the ability to place the promotions back, but couldn't get the quality up. It could, however, take multiple types of might.
I've attached a SS with a turn after the lost promotions, and the save to reproduce the bug.
To reproduce the bug, attack the skirmisher with noble 8, located near hadrumetum. It will lose its promotions, dropping from a power of 200 to power of 18.
*note- the quality up in the SS is "Legendary Prowess", the best of the current promotions it possess. I didn't get the option to get any of the other ones.

While not directly relevant, in terms of balance it seems strange that it's not that hard to get my mounted infantry to powers of 200-300, to the point they take on tanks, guerillas and pretty much anything else.

Spoiler :

View attachment 484156

The bug was that the canKeep function should not be invalidating a promotion due to a level change (this leads to an obvious logic flaw in having a promotion remove XP from a unit when it is assigned when that promotion also requires a particular level). That's what caused a collapse the code was never prepared for because it shouldn't have been possible. Easily repaired.

 

[Toffer90]

I think there might an issue with the Cleopatra's Needle wonder. Everytime the city is almost finished, the game crashes. I am running SVN 9800 and Toffer's Interface Overhaul WIP. I included my latest save.

A bug in the interface modmod for sure, I'll fix it as soon as possible.

 

[irishhombre]

Thank you.

 

[raxo2222]

Great Statesman still isn't able to make golden age and it should be.

 

[strategyonly]

just looked and the python for "Partisans" is not working again, the game says it is delivering the unit but the game does not produce them (ingame)??

 

[Raledon]

I'm not sure if it's a bug or a feature, so rather report/ask here-
When emancipating slaves, I get three types- early merchants for hammer boost, a few captives that can be turned into food, and a ton of immigrants.
Does granting immigrants, that can only be joined to cities of size 7 intentional? Is there an actual way to use the large number of them?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I'm not sure if it's a bug or a feature, so rather report/ask here-
When emancipating slaves, I get three types- early merchants for hammer boost, a few captives that can be turned into food, and a ton of immigrants.
Does granting immigrants, that can only be joined to cities of size 7 intentional? Is there an actual way to use the large number of them?

The population limit on city size they can join is on my list to adjust. Basically they will be able to join any city that has the infrastructure to support more population. I think the numbers are something like

None - pop 6
Village Hall - pop 13
Town Hall - pop 20
City Council - pop 30
Metropolitan/Capital Administration - 40​

The population numbers should actually match the population numbers required for building sets, which I don't have access to at this moment.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There is an error in the costing of the "extensions" to temples and monasteries. They currently cost the same as the base building because they become available on the same tech. However they are not a new building. They may just be a new ceremony in the building. They should be a quarter to a third of the current costs.

 

[Thunderbrd]

There is an error in the costing of the "extensions" to temples and monasteries. They currently cost the same as the base building because they become available on the same tech. However they are not a new building. They may just be a new ceremony in the building. They should be a quarter to a third of the current costs.

Ok, the second round of recosting efforts on religious buildings is one of my next tasks to focus on and I did what I did as an initial way to bring this up. So it's good you comment on it now... perfect timing. I can see going on a quarter cost for new ritual extensions rule. Makes sense.