Sinners and saints

Aphex_Twin

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A few question for Christians and not only.

What constitutes a sin?

Can a "sinner" who repents in the very last moment of his life enjoy heaven, while a "saint" who would slip at the same time would be granted the grill treatment?

How "evil" must one be in order to go to hell?
 
He, he, being in the wrong church is just enough. :p

Pre-determination, I'll go to heaven, you're going not. :p

One more serious take. It's confusing. As god forgives sin. Some claim, no deed is important, only faith counts. So if you're faith is true, you're saved. On the other hand, all good deeds can't save you, if your faith in god isn't real. Others say deeds count. And then there is the possibility to repent. Which is the other interesting thing, what if you believed nearly your whole life, in the last year before you die, you say that you changed your mind and don't believe in it anymore ?
 
I have a question for you Aphex. Why the heck is there such an inane fascination of some of the more liberal members here at CFC to start topics on religion: in particular, Christianity.

I see a possibility of two answers.

(1) There is a real soul search by you and others here to really, deep down inside, know the truth about spiritual matters, of which I and many other Christians are more than happy to help you with.

(2) You and many other posters here at CFC continue your attempt to troll the Christians in order to garner some kind of entertainment for your *pathetic* lives.

Which do you think it is? :rolleyes:

--CK
 
Christians have been arguing about that for centuries. I doubt they've reached a consensus by now. In the end, only God Hisownself knows what it takes to get into Heaven. If there is such a place. If there is such a being. No human knows for sure.
 
SAINT, n.
A dead sinner revised and edited.

The Duchess of Orleans relates that the irreverent old calumniator, Marshal Villeroi, who in his youth had known St. Francis de Sales, said, on hearing him called saint: "I am delighted to hear that Monsieur de Sales is a saint. He was fond of saying indelicate things, and used to cheat at cards. In other respects he was a perfect gentleman, though a fool."
 
All I know is that people like Ghandi are burning in Hell because they weren't Christians.
 
Ok, Aphex, I'll answer the basic tennants of you question, only because the answers, thus far, make me cringe.

Your use of the term "saint" shows your lack of the basic ideas of the Christian faith. However much the term may have been (and perhaps still used by some) used in the past, it is wholly inappropriate.

There are only two types of people in the Christian faith: sinners and saved sinners. Note that those who claim to be Christians are indeed also sinners and continue to be sinners.

The basic idea of Christianity and faith in God is that "all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God." "There are none righteous, no not one." The VERY first thing all must acknowledge is that they are hopelessly in slavement to sin. Once it is acknowledged that one is indeed a sinner (note that this is THE most difficult hurdle for most people), they are on their way to knowing the true freedom of accepting God's grace and forgiveness.

Once you accept you are hopelessly a sinner, and no matter how hard you try, you will never be sinless, you accept that only God's grace can save you. Only God's perfect gift of salvation through the sacrifice of His perfect son Jesus Christ can save us from our sins. The acknowledgement that Christ is God and became God-man, died, was buried and rose again is the foundation of becoming "saved".

The true saved part is really just the major (and very humble) acknowledgement that we are hopeless creatures of sin without God and do nothing of our own to become perfect and good. For, becoming sinless is the only means by which we may have eternal fellowship with God.

So, to answer your question:

"Can a "sinner" who repents in the very last moment of his life enjoy heaven, while a "saint" who would slip at the same time would be granted the grill treatment?"

By your definition of a "saint": yes, yes, and double yes. This is so DIFFICULT for so many to understand. "How is Joe Shmoe, who is the nicest guy I've ever known and does everything for everybody, going to go to hell while Suzy Slut next door becomes "saved" at the hospital is going to heaven? I don't want to serve a God like THAT!"

God says our good works are as filthy rags. Anything can look good if you put it up against a sufficiently bad thing. Fortunately (or perhaps unfortunately in your eyes), the bar is not set by humans. The basis of comparison is Jesus Christ, the only one who was perfect on earth. That is who you are to compare your life to. The fact is you OR I will NEVER measure up to that bar. So we MUST accept God's gift of grace for our salvation!

Man, get it right, you all! I am so sick of seeing Christianity and the plan of salvation being perverted and twisted by all of you and those like you. It's a beautiful and simple gift, but all of you are too proud to accept it. "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

"How "evil" must one be in order to go to hell?"

It is NOT how "evil" a person is that determines who goes to hell. All are hopelessly lost in sin compared to the Glory of God. You go to hell, I go to hell, Ghandi goes to hell, Billy Graham goes to hell if we all do not acknowledge that we are all sinners and need the salvation of Jesus Christ and the Grace of God.

There, I hope that answers your questions. Flame away!
 
Good posts, Colonel Kraken.
 
1) A sin is basically doing something that you know you shouldn't do (at a moral stance).

2) Christian belief is that everyone, including themselves, is a sinner.

3) God knows who gets into Heaven. You better ask Him, instead. :p
 
@ Kraken

Amen and amen.
 
Originally posted by Aphex_Twin

Can a "sinner" who repents in the very last moment of his life enjoy heaven, while a "saint" who would slip at the same time would be granted the grill treatment?

Yes. You can live a life of sin but if you truly realize that you've been living your life entirely wrong then there is no harm done. Its much harder for a saint to fall out of sainthood - you don't hear of too many enlightened people going horribly wrong, but it can happen.

A sin is any knowledgable action turning yourself away from God. It is rebelling against God.
 
amen Colonel Kraken , I gald you took the bait and not the hook;)
 
A brief analogy:

We are all stuck in a river (sin), heading for a deadly plunge (hell). There is no way out; high rock banks, fast current, cold water. It doesn't matter how hard you try to swim (works on earth), you're doomed. Then someone (Jesus) appears and offers to throw down a rope to pull you out (salvation). Whether you take it or not is your choice.
 
Originally posted by Johann MacLeod
so then why did Jesus waste his time with all that crap about being nice to each other if, according to you, it makes no difference?

I think you'll find that the Bible teaches that sin is covered by the blood of Jesus. But the church is judged, which is to say that the saved are judged for their works (that would be their works after being saved). Rewards and punishments are given to the "saints" according to their works. But their salvation is judged soley on their faith (their conversion).

And besides, being nice to each other is Godly, worthwhile in its own right.
 
so then why did Jesus waste his time with all that crap about being nice to each other if, according to you, it makes no difference?

Works alone will not save you. However, once one is saved one will desire to help others thus "all that crap about being nice to each other."
 
obviously i didn't really mean that(my previous post). Its my personal opinion that he was human and wasn't perfact but thats of inconsequnce since all this has been relentlessly debated for the last 2000 years and no one has come to a definate conclusion. Wouldn't it be funny if Greek Polytheism turned out to be the true faith? :p
 
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