Sins of the Fallen

[Sheogorath]

I have a question regarding the evil gods and which sin they most likely represent,

I can honestly tell that mammon might represent greed, being the god of greed of

course, and camulos being the representative of wrath since war is his precept, while

aeron being lust which can be concluded due to his previous problems with gabella and

holding the prececpt/sphere of body/rage. I can only guess that esus represents envy

due to his/her vault which embodies lies, and the hatred of seeing others having more

than you and forgetting what you already have, but this is only speculation at best.

The problem I have currently is determining which sin the other three evil gods

represent...excluding Bhall of course.


Mulcarn's sphere hints at sloth because of the stasis and nostalgia and overall ceaseing of production and research he brought about during the AOI, but upon reading about his vault it may suggest gluttony, mostly due to that fact that his vault looks very much akin to the cirlce of hell in dante's inferno in which the gluttons go to, which is exactly the description of mulcarns hell, a frozen swamp in which the the very ground is a representation of what the sinners have done to their bodies


Agares however made me think of pride, since lucifer and him both shared a common personality trait of not wanting to give up their power to god/the one becuase they believed they rightly deserved it and not the mortals, but upon looking closer at agares sphere of entropy and his precept of dispair, it made me think of sloth. even Nyx the vault of agares is a place of sadness and dispair which suits sloth much more than pride and the denizens of the plane are slowly wasting away and only Bhall the god of passion and fire is able to stir the demons out of their depression...which makes me think that agares is even harder to divine than cerwiden.


Cerwiden's personality and her being the queen of secrets makes me think of her personifying gluttony in the sense that she gorges herelf on secrets and power and has the largest vault which has no size itself ie. gluttony. for some reason she makes me think pride, although im uncertain why...perhaps she just has that arrogant aura about her.


anywho, can anyone jump in here and help further explain the psyche of these angels for me, i know the 7 deadly sins are bit of a one sided view, but my curriostity is insatiable and i must know. plus i might be completely wrong about all this and these evil goods might each be personifying a virtue

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Kael said that the evil gods are not based on the 7 deadly sins, but the creatures that the Planar Gates summon are.

 

[Sheogorath]

I See, so succubi being lust and revelars being envy, but what would a tar baby be, gluttony or sloth

 

[Sheogorath]

another and probally even better question is how do these creturse come into being, i know tar denom is somewhat of a demonic construct but what of a chaos marruader or minotaur or mobius witch for that matter and what sin do they emply

 

[Dracosolon]

For the creatures of the Planar Gate, the official association is: Tar Demons: Sloth, Revelers: Envy, Chaos Marauders (but Magister introduced a new creature to fit this role in his Modmod): Greed(?), Manticores: Gluttony, Minotaurs: Wrath, Mobius Witch: Pride, and Succubi: Lust.

I had fun once to represent the Deadly Sins forming a wheel and representing them like the Evil Gods' Precepts are represented in FfH, like this:
Gluttony (corruption of Hope)

- Wrath (Corruption of Diligence) -​

Pride (Corruption of Kindness)​

-

-​

Greed (corruption of Chastity)

Lust (corruption of Charity)​

-

-​

Envy (corruption of Humility)

- Sloth (corruption of Patience) -​

Despair (corruption of Temporance)​

So I progressively come to associate each Sin with one of the Evil Gods:
-Mulcarn is Sloth. Originally, his role was to grant rest to the world. Beside, many of his creatures seems to have powers to bring torpor, and Tar Demon come from his Vault.
-Mammon is Envy. Yes I know. But it seems he can equally be tied to Envy or Greed, both fascination for power, though Envy in a more desperate and bitter way.
-Camulos is Greed. But that's only because Chaos Marauders are assiocated with Greed.
-Aeron is Gluttony. Physical pleasures, excesses, anyone? But you can also say that he represents the Seven Deadly Sins in general (Gluttony, Wrath, Pride and Lust, anyway).
-Bhall is Wrath. Fury, corruption of righteous indignation?
-Ceridwen is Pride. She is all about social position, her plans seem to involve the One himself, and Mobius Witch are powerful dimensionnal creatures.
-Esus is Lust. But that's only because I have a very different perception of what could be this Sin: not physical pleasure, you already have Gluttony. So, I decided that Lust represents the joys you can have from the mind: sadistically tricking other, gambling, lying for the sack of lying, moral harassment... It oppose Greed because it's doing all this for the pleasure to do so, without fear of consequences and even changing the odds in your defavor for extra challenge. Can eventually fit Esus, even if he appears more tied to relativism, doubt, defiance, and sheer paranoia.
-Agares is Despair. Need I say more?

And, by the way, I second Sheogorath: we need to know more about Minotaurs, Manticores and Succubi. Especially Succubi.
For the other ones, we already know: Tar Demon are effectively rip off of some Dante's torments, Revelers live in a world where they endlessly gain and conveit new things, Chaos Marauders where created by Camulos as universal translators before his corruption, and Mobius Witch are Expys of Keziah Mason (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dreams_in_the_Witch_House)

 

[Sheogorath]

And I thought I was the prince of madness, how and where does alll this information and off-the-top-of-your-head Knowledge come from? I'd go doubly mad if I ever knew.

on a side note, I thought there was only 7 deadly sins? if theres 8 now then humanity has no chance for survival and we should head to hell as fast as we can to speed up the process of well processing souls!

 

[Dracosolon]

Spoiler :

And I thought I was the prince of madness, how and where does alll this information and off-the-top-of-your-head Knowledge come from? I'd go doubly mad if I ever knew.

You mean, stuff about FfH? Basically, just a lot of reading of the Civilopedia, but primilarly of Kael and Magister's posts.

Spoiler :

on a side note, I thought there was only 7 deadly sins? if theres 8 now then humanity has no chance for survival and we should head to hell as fast as we can to speed up the process of well processing souls!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SevenDeadlySins
--

Spoiler :

in fact, the sin of Despair was classified under this because to despair is to give up *
(the Eastern Orthodox Churches actually have an "Eight Deadly Sins" list, where Despair is a separate Sin; this is why it you are more likely to find someone being accused of "the Unforgivable Sin of Despair" in a Russian classical novel than in a Western European one)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Tar Demons are conglomerations of souls from Mulcarn's hell that were too weak and lazy to be worth further processing to make them into individual demons.

I believe that Revelers were mortal inhabitants of another plain of existence, a plain quite similar to Erebus rather than a vault of a god but another world not unlike Erebus.

Chaos Marauders were originally angels called the Pacales, created by Camulos to be traders and diplomats with with the ability to speak and understand any language.

Manticores and Minotaurs were creations of human Life mages from the Age of Magic. They all but went extinct in Erebus, but Ceridwen hid some away elsewhere.

Mobius Witches are former humans who serve Ceridwen and have been twisted by living their life within Ceridwen's passages between worlds. Perhaps they could count as a form of demon processed from mortal souls, but they don't go through the normal processing by the machine of hell and the might not have died first.

Succubi are demons of Aeron, although I'm not sure if they are true demons or processed souls. (I assume at least some of them left Aeron's service, as one is shown working for Os-Gabella who despises the god that tried to rape her.)

 

[Sheogorath]

Neat...I get most of my FFH lore from the wiki, so there might be some info gaps