SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
A Chieftain level game with a Diplomatic victory at 210AD
Links to related threads:
DaveMcW's fast space victory which set the pattern for this type of game.
Sandman's Diplo Fastest Finish
Ronald's Diplo Race
Getting Started
Map settings: Russia, Chieftain difficulty, Standard size, Pangaea with 60% water, Sedentary barbarians, Wet/Warm/5Byears, Least Aggressive rivals.
I selected seven scientific opponents: Persia, Ottomans, Korea, Sumeria, Germany, Byzantines, Greece. All of the scientific Civs are in the game except Babylon - she's the excluded one so that Ceremonial Burial is not known by anyone at the start.
I used Moonsinger's MapFinder utility to produce candidate maps. I selected for maps which had a river and at least two cattle visible.
Looking for the perfect start, I played the first few turns on each map fairly quickly. If there was no obvious reason to move (e.g. settler on cattle or not on river) I settled at the start. I began by irrigating cattle, producing a scout, and researching Ceremonial Burial at maximum.
A perfect start would have more bonus tiles nearby, would have a fair bit of river (commerce bonus and no aqueducts are both important), would quickly pop a settler or a well-positioned village from a hut, and would get a SGL (Scientific Great Leader) early in the game to rush Pyramids.
I didn't have a hard and fast rule for rejecting maps. If I popped a settler or village very early (first turn or two) then I'd play longer even if the surroundings weren't perfect. If I found lots of bonus tiles I'd play a bit longer even if I didn't get a settler/village immediately. Most maps were rejected quickly. If I didn't get a settler within 3 or 4 turns and the start region didn't have a lot more going for it than the two starting cattle, that was it, I'd abandon the map.
The map I played out looked like this after settling Moscow:
I moved the scout to the south mountain to use up a turn. (A settler can't be popped on the first turn.) On the second turn the scout popped a settler and he moved one step:
This wasn't the best of starts because the food bonuses were a bit weak. (Starts with four cattle visible at the second turn are not terribly uncommon.) But with the very early settler it seemed worth playing out to the discovery of Ceremonial Burial.
At 3600 I learned Ceremonial Burial and got a scientific leader. The start region still wasn't looking great - no additional bonuses yet. But it had lots of rivers and the fast second town plus the SGL made this one well worth continuing.
My next research was Mysticism. I'd met Greece and traded for Alphabet, so Writing was a candidate. But Mysticism is 1/2 the price to research and it is good odds that Writing can be popped faster than researching it.
My scouts started popping every hut they encountered (vs. bypassing ones close to home) to try for Masonry ASAP so that the leader could rush Pyramids.
In 3100BC I learned Mysticism and got a second SGL!
The start region still didn't look awesome (no additional cattle, just one luxury visible so far) but I no longer cared. With two early SGLs this was the start I'd play out.
I had five scouts and two workers at this date.
Ancient Times
At 3100BC I had learned CB and Mysticism, traded for Alphabet, and popped Warrior Code, The Wheel, Horseback Riding, and Masonry. I didn't have Writing yet. I set research to Iron Working at zero to block that from being popped.
In 2900BC I popped Writing and began researching Philosophy. Still had just three towns but I was up to seven scouts (all I'd produce) and four workers.
In 2510BC I learned Philosophy. I'd popped Code Of Laws already, took Republic as the free tech, and revolted inter-turn drawing a four turn anarchy.
While in anarchy I settled a coastal town and used my second SGL to rush Colossus there. This took care of 1/2 the requirement for triggering a Golden Age and would give a research boost in that town.
In 2390BC I was in Republic. I had 5 towns, 7 scouts, and 6 workers. I used the bit of gold I'd stashed to rush one library:
At this point I'd popped all remaining Ancient techs except Construction and Monarchy. I set research to Monarchy at zero to block it. I had one concern at this point - I'd met just four rivals so far. If I entered the Middle Ages there was a fair chance I wouldn't get all three starting techs.
Three of my scouts waited beside huts as the other four continued exploring. At 2310BC I'd met two more Civs and decided to go for it. I popped the huts, got Construction, and entered the Middle Ages.
Middle Ages
Inter-turn 3 of my rivals got Engineering, 2 got Feudalism, 1 got Monotheism. Using Republic I traded for all three. My free tech was Invention.
From this point on I used deficit spending for a long time, running at 100% on the research+luxury sliders. At Chieftain level there's no penalty for running a deficit. To stay within the HOF rules I didn't make any gpt deals with the AIs. Not that they had anything to offer me
The challenge at this point was to increase research capacity as quickly as possible. To some extent I think this kind of game (the headlong science rush) self-balances at this stage. The sooner one reaches the Middle Ages, the lower one's research capacity at that date. So the first tech or two takes longer to learn and that loses some of the speed gained in Ancient Times. To complicate things further I had no luxuries at all in the home region. The nearest luxury was the incense far west of home. I couldn't spare the resources to connect it for quite a while yet. I had to use the luxury slider a bit and had to limit the size of my towns. At the start of the Middle Ages in 2310BC my projected time to learn Theology was 19 turns.
Triggering a Golden Age was a priority. During a Golden Age I'd get a boost to my research speed and I'd be able to hustle production of libraries and universities. I had a build of Mausoleum Of Mausollos on the go to trigger the GA.
It took 14 turns to learn Theology, 10 more to learn Education, then 7 to learn Gunpowder. During this time I continued expanding of course - three of my core towns had +5 food/turn and they kept churning out settlers and workers. I got my first luxury connected in 1700BC and my second in 1375BC. I sacrificed some core development (a team of three workers and a settler) for each but they were well worth it.
In 1275BC I completed Mausoleum of Mausollos and began a Golden Age. My world looked like this:
I got Astronomy in 6 turns and that was the last slow research. Banking, Chemistry, Physics, ToG, Magnetism, and Metallurgy took four turns each to finish the Middle Ages at 610BC.
QSC Status
At 1000BC I was learning Chemistry and had:
25 cities, 90 population
19 workers
Pyramids, Colossus, Mausoleum of Mausollos
12 libraries, 3 universities, 2 harbors, 2 aqueducts
Industrial Age
I gifted my rivals forward inter-turn. Two got Steam Power, two got Nationalism, and three got Medicine. I traded for all three, starting by leveraging Republic which was still unknown to Byzantines. And my free tech was a lucky one - Electricity!
At this point if everything went perfectly I could finish in 40 turns. But four turn research was going to be a problem - I wasn't up to the much higher cost of Industrial Age techs yet.
I had a Forbidden Palace by this time. I wanted four more wonders: Copernicus', Newton's, Theory Of Evolution, and the UN. I had Newton's and Copernicus' each about 1/2 built. The other two could wait until I got factories with coal plants - I started a prebuild for one of the factories.
At this point I had a big "oops" moment - I didn't have iron! In every game I can remember I've had iron by this time so I just hadn't given it any thought till now. Coal was available and just needed a road. But iron? The nearest source was in Greece. I switched a number of builds to Longbowmen in the cities nearest that border. Six turns later I had 7 Longbowmen ready and invaded Greece. Even that few turned out to be overkill. The Greek capital was defended by just two Hoplites. I took it easily, then settled near it to grab iron (and ivory while I was at it) quickly without needing border expansion. Nine turns after entering the Industrial Age I was finally able to start railroading. I had 49 workers at that point and railroading went quickly, soon resulting in three production powerhouse cities to build ToE and the UN. (I set up two cities to prebuild separately timed UNs to allow for the unlikely but possible event that I didn't learn Fission immediately on entering Modern Times.)
Taking that one city from Greece was the only warfare in the game.
At the start of the Industrial Age Industrialization was projected to be a six turn research. I ended up getting it in five, and when I learned it I got another SGL. I used this one to rush Newton's in my Colossus city, to leverage its income. (At size 12 it ended up producing 156 beakers/turn after corruption!)
And after Industrialization I was able to maintain a four turn research pace the rest of the way. It was a constant struggle with population growth, new roads, and new city improvements just barely increasing income enough to handle each tech. A couple of times I temporarily reassigned many citizens in outlying towns to scientists to squeak through a tech in four turns.
And that was it, nothing else of interest to report. At the dawn of Modern Times in 210AD two rivals got Fission inter-turn. I was able to easily trade for all four Modern Times start techs since I didn't need to pay a monopoly price to get started. (And after winning I saw that I'd gotten Space Flight as my free tech.)
Lots of gifts, ROPs, and a few military alliances assured that most rivals would vote for me. I flipped the prebuild to complete UN, called the vote, and won easily in 210AD with a Firaxis score of 2185.
Amusingly, at the end of the game the AIs were so far behind that most had not even met each other! Four of them knew only one Civ other than me. Two knew two other Civs, one knew four. The AIs ranged in size from three to six cities at this date. My world map at the end:
A Faster Finish?
I am sure that a faster Diplomatic finish is possible. I'm not sure by how much. I think that on a perfect map it might be possible to finish eleven or more turns earlier with a BC date. But how much effort is required to find such a perfect map? I don't know.
To improve on this date I think what would be needed is:
o Equally good luck with an early settler/village, with one early SGL, and with the free techs at each new era.
o At the same time as that luck, a great start position with lots of cattle and rivers and a couple of luxuries in the region.
o Reasonable to good hut luck. I don't think great luck is needed here, just a lack of bad luck. I could have entered the Middle Ages a bit sooner with better hut luck. But I'm not sure it would have made much difference. I did have a lot of huts left over - popped about fifteen more after entering the Middle Ages while exploring the rest of the map.
I think the rest is reasonably predictable given the above factors. Some luck is important in meeting enough rivals quickly enough. But that's for knowing them on entering the Middle Ages, not for trading with them. I only got one Ancient tech via trade. Getting more SGLs after the first one will of course help. But I think they aren't as a big a factor as having good land.
I'm mulling over whether I'll take another run soon. I'm going to keep running MapFinder to save up some maps. I'm also starting to think about a fast Sid Diplomatic strategy...
Links to related threads:
DaveMcW's fast space victory which set the pattern for this type of game.
Sandman's Diplo Fastest Finish
Ronald's Diplo Race
Getting Started
Map settings: Russia, Chieftain difficulty, Standard size, Pangaea with 60% water, Sedentary barbarians, Wet/Warm/5Byears, Least Aggressive rivals.
I selected seven scientific opponents: Persia, Ottomans, Korea, Sumeria, Germany, Byzantines, Greece. All of the scientific Civs are in the game except Babylon - she's the excluded one so that Ceremonial Burial is not known by anyone at the start.
I used Moonsinger's MapFinder utility to produce candidate maps. I selected for maps which had a river and at least two cattle visible.
Looking for the perfect start, I played the first few turns on each map fairly quickly. If there was no obvious reason to move (e.g. settler on cattle or not on river) I settled at the start. I began by irrigating cattle, producing a scout, and researching Ceremonial Burial at maximum.
A perfect start would have more bonus tiles nearby, would have a fair bit of river (commerce bonus and no aqueducts are both important), would quickly pop a settler or a well-positioned village from a hut, and would get a SGL (Scientific Great Leader) early in the game to rush Pyramids.
I didn't have a hard and fast rule for rejecting maps. If I popped a settler or village very early (first turn or two) then I'd play longer even if the surroundings weren't perfect. If I found lots of bonus tiles I'd play a bit longer even if I didn't get a settler/village immediately. Most maps were rejected quickly. If I didn't get a settler within 3 or 4 turns and the start region didn't have a lot more going for it than the two starting cattle, that was it, I'd abandon the map.
The map I played out looked like this after settling Moscow:
I moved the scout to the south mountain to use up a turn. (A settler can't be popped on the first turn.) On the second turn the scout popped a settler and he moved one step:
This wasn't the best of starts because the food bonuses were a bit weak. (Starts with four cattle visible at the second turn are not terribly uncommon.) But with the very early settler it seemed worth playing out to the discovery of Ceremonial Burial.
At 3600 I learned Ceremonial Burial and got a scientific leader. The start region still wasn't looking great - no additional bonuses yet. But it had lots of rivers and the fast second town plus the SGL made this one well worth continuing.
My next research was Mysticism. I'd met Greece and traded for Alphabet, so Writing was a candidate. But Mysticism is 1/2 the price to research and it is good odds that Writing can be popped faster than researching it.
My scouts started popping every hut they encountered (vs. bypassing ones close to home) to try for Masonry ASAP so that the leader could rush Pyramids.
In 3100BC I learned Mysticism and got a second SGL!
The start region still didn't look awesome (no additional cattle, just one luxury visible so far) but I no longer cared. With two early SGLs this was the start I'd play out.
I had five scouts and two workers at this date.
Ancient Times
At 3100BC I had learned CB and Mysticism, traded for Alphabet, and popped Warrior Code, The Wheel, Horseback Riding, and Masonry. I didn't have Writing yet. I set research to Iron Working at zero to block that from being popped.
In 2900BC I popped Writing and began researching Philosophy. Still had just three towns but I was up to seven scouts (all I'd produce) and four workers.
In 2510BC I learned Philosophy. I'd popped Code Of Laws already, took Republic as the free tech, and revolted inter-turn drawing a four turn anarchy.
While in anarchy I settled a coastal town and used my second SGL to rush Colossus there. This took care of 1/2 the requirement for triggering a Golden Age and would give a research boost in that town.
In 2390BC I was in Republic. I had 5 towns, 7 scouts, and 6 workers. I used the bit of gold I'd stashed to rush one library:
At this point I'd popped all remaining Ancient techs except Construction and Monarchy. I set research to Monarchy at zero to block it. I had one concern at this point - I'd met just four rivals so far. If I entered the Middle Ages there was a fair chance I wouldn't get all three starting techs.
Three of my scouts waited beside huts as the other four continued exploring. At 2310BC I'd met two more Civs and decided to go for it. I popped the huts, got Construction, and entered the Middle Ages.
Middle Ages
Inter-turn 3 of my rivals got Engineering, 2 got Feudalism, 1 got Monotheism. Using Republic I traded for all three. My free tech was Invention.
From this point on I used deficit spending for a long time, running at 100% on the research+luxury sliders. At Chieftain level there's no penalty for running a deficit. To stay within the HOF rules I didn't make any gpt deals with the AIs. Not that they had anything to offer me
The challenge at this point was to increase research capacity as quickly as possible. To some extent I think this kind of game (the headlong science rush) self-balances at this stage. The sooner one reaches the Middle Ages, the lower one's research capacity at that date. So the first tech or two takes longer to learn and that loses some of the speed gained in Ancient Times. To complicate things further I had no luxuries at all in the home region. The nearest luxury was the incense far west of home. I couldn't spare the resources to connect it for quite a while yet. I had to use the luxury slider a bit and had to limit the size of my towns. At the start of the Middle Ages in 2310BC my projected time to learn Theology was 19 turns.
Triggering a Golden Age was a priority. During a Golden Age I'd get a boost to my research speed and I'd be able to hustle production of libraries and universities. I had a build of Mausoleum Of Mausollos on the go to trigger the GA.
It took 14 turns to learn Theology, 10 more to learn Education, then 7 to learn Gunpowder. During this time I continued expanding of course - three of my core towns had +5 food/turn and they kept churning out settlers and workers. I got my first luxury connected in 1700BC and my second in 1375BC. I sacrificed some core development (a team of three workers and a settler) for each but they were well worth it.
In 1275BC I completed Mausoleum of Mausollos and began a Golden Age. My world looked like this:
I got Astronomy in 6 turns and that was the last slow research. Banking, Chemistry, Physics, ToG, Magnetism, and Metallurgy took four turns each to finish the Middle Ages at 610BC.
QSC Status
At 1000BC I was learning Chemistry and had:
25 cities, 90 population
19 workers
Pyramids, Colossus, Mausoleum of Mausollos
12 libraries, 3 universities, 2 harbors, 2 aqueducts
Industrial Age
I gifted my rivals forward inter-turn. Two got Steam Power, two got Nationalism, and three got Medicine. I traded for all three, starting by leveraging Republic which was still unknown to Byzantines. And my free tech was a lucky one - Electricity!
At this point if everything went perfectly I could finish in 40 turns. But four turn research was going to be a problem - I wasn't up to the much higher cost of Industrial Age techs yet.
I had a Forbidden Palace by this time. I wanted four more wonders: Copernicus', Newton's, Theory Of Evolution, and the UN. I had Newton's and Copernicus' each about 1/2 built. The other two could wait until I got factories with coal plants - I started a prebuild for one of the factories.
At this point I had a big "oops" moment - I didn't have iron! In every game I can remember I've had iron by this time so I just hadn't given it any thought till now. Coal was available and just needed a road. But iron? The nearest source was in Greece. I switched a number of builds to Longbowmen in the cities nearest that border. Six turns later I had 7 Longbowmen ready and invaded Greece. Even that few turned out to be overkill. The Greek capital was defended by just two Hoplites. I took it easily, then settled near it to grab iron (and ivory while I was at it) quickly without needing border expansion. Nine turns after entering the Industrial Age I was finally able to start railroading. I had 49 workers at that point and railroading went quickly, soon resulting in three production powerhouse cities to build ToE and the UN. (I set up two cities to prebuild separately timed UNs to allow for the unlikely but possible event that I didn't learn Fission immediately on entering Modern Times.)
Taking that one city from Greece was the only warfare in the game.
At the start of the Industrial Age Industrialization was projected to be a six turn research. I ended up getting it in five, and when I learned it I got another SGL. I used this one to rush Newton's in my Colossus city, to leverage its income. (At size 12 it ended up producing 156 beakers/turn after corruption!)
And after Industrialization I was able to maintain a four turn research pace the rest of the way. It was a constant struggle with population growth, new roads, and new city improvements just barely increasing income enough to handle each tech. A couple of times I temporarily reassigned many citizens in outlying towns to scientists to squeak through a tech in four turns.
And that was it, nothing else of interest to report. At the dawn of Modern Times in 210AD two rivals got Fission inter-turn. I was able to easily trade for all four Modern Times start techs since I didn't need to pay a monopoly price to get started. (And after winning I saw that I'd gotten Space Flight as my free tech.)
Lots of gifts, ROPs, and a few military alliances assured that most rivals would vote for me. I flipped the prebuild to complete UN, called the vote, and won easily in 210AD with a Firaxis score of 2185.
Amusingly, at the end of the game the AIs were so far behind that most had not even met each other! Four of them knew only one Civ other than me. Two knew two other Civs, one knew four. The AIs ranged in size from three to six cities at this date. My world map at the end:
A Faster Finish?
I am sure that a faster Diplomatic finish is possible. I'm not sure by how much. I think that on a perfect map it might be possible to finish eleven or more turns earlier with a BC date. But how much effort is required to find such a perfect map? I don't know.
To improve on this date I think what would be needed is:
o Equally good luck with an early settler/village, with one early SGL, and with the free techs at each new era.
o At the same time as that luck, a great start position with lots of cattle and rivers and a couple of luxuries in the region.
o Reasonable to good hut luck. I don't think great luck is needed here, just a lack of bad luck. I could have entered the Middle Ages a bit sooner with better hut luck. But I'm not sure it would have made much difference. I did have a lot of huts left over - popped about fifteen more after entering the Middle Ages while exploring the rest of the map.
I think the rest is reasonably predictable given the above factors. Some luck is important in meeting enough rivals quickly enough. But that's for knowing them on entering the Middle Ages, not for trading with them. I only got one Ancient tech via trade. Getting more SGLs after the first one will of course help. But I think they aren't as a big a factor as having good land.
I'm mulling over whether I'll take another run soon. I'm going to keep running MapFinder to save up some maps. I'm also starting to think about a fast Sid Diplomatic strategy...
.
I'm running an older version of MapFinder. I guess I should upgrade. Anyway, the version I'm running is before the recognition of fresh water was added so I just get starts with rivers.
