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Six gold start?!?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Mouthwash, Feb 14, 2012.

  1. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    :eek::eek::eek::eek:



    Is part of the AI bonus on Monarch rolling better starts? I've never seen this before.
     
  2. shakabrade

    shakabrade Praise Vivec!

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    OMG, never seen something like that.
    No, it is not part of the AI bonus.
    Never seen something like that in deity games.
    It even has enough food to work all of them.

    Seraiel would love this one.
     
  3. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Deity

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    Ok I am not going to sugar coat it and lie to you. One of the AI will always have the best start on the map, it will never be you. The RNG favors the AI.
     
  4. Scoottr

    Scoottr Prince

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    No idea how people play without the tile tags on. Just me I guess...so much easier to see the resource.
     
  5. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Deity

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    By looking at the tile yields you can tell what it is.
     
  6. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    Is it that hard to to tell just by looking at the color?
     
  7. goldys_lackey

    goldys_lackey Hitler

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    2 or 3 coin is gold yield?

    just kidding.

    it really is helpful though.
     
  8. ahcos

    ahcos King

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    Not even enough food to feed all the hills early on, lol.
     
  9. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

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    It's not that good. You don't have enough food to work all of those and by the time you do cottages with all their late game bonuses will be better.
     
  10. ChanceDanger

    ChanceDanger Warlord

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    What's wrong with 3 1/2 gold hills at size 6? Corn+Cows+grassland farm is +8 food, with plenty of additional irrigation area. All gold is size 14 without starvation, not even needing Civil Service. You can also grab the final plains hill with a windmill + civil service to size 16 for what is a great capital. I'm not remembering anything at the moment that makes cottages so attractive before Printing Press, and this seems like this would be a fairly obvious civil service rush. I'd say the advantage early would make up for the fact you're not running US/Printing Press/ect. bonus towns 1000 years later
     
  11. TheWilltoAct

    TheWilltoAct I am observe

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    This is map generator comedy at its finest, thanks for sharing!
     
  12. Killroyan

    Killroyan Deity

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    The worst thing is that the AI gets such a such a start and doesn't know how to leverage it and just gets boxed in.
     
  13. WelshGandalf

    WelshGandalf King

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    Prague can work one of them.... the seafood/horses/gold is a pretty nice 2nd city.
     
  14. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    I find it very attractive, but I have already seen better ones, i. e. with more Food. I myself once had a 5 Gold Start with tripple high yield food, it's posted as second start in the awesome starts thread, that's the best I've seen / gotten so far. Once I had 6 Gems 2 wet Corn and 3 Sugar, but didn't save that one. Tachy also posted some very sick starts, iirc one had 5 Gold 2 wet Corn and Copper + Horse in the 3rd Ring, another one like 12 Ressources in the BFC. That's why I like the fact, that HoF allowes for "Standart" Ressources :D
     
  15. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    He didn't get boxed in, the continent is very small.
     
  16. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    The question must be asked, why haven't you taken that city for your own nefarious purposes yet?
     
  17. ahcos

    ahcos King

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    You said it yourself: when you work 4 goldmines @ size 7, you'll stagnate. That's not very hot, some riverside cottages would actually be better combined with some 1-2 goldmines as you'd still grow. Yes, you can grow on more grassland farms, but then you wouldn't be able to work the Gold in the meantime. Riverside cottages should be pretty much even in this case as you could work them constantly.

    I'm not saying it is bad, but a) you're overrating commerce compared to food/production, b) it will still take some time to grow into all the gold times, not counting the time it will take to REgrow into them after you whipped for example.

    Yes, so many gold hills are not bad, but you will still find it hard to work them constantly, and if you do, you give up on alot of whip potential. 2 or maybe even 3 gold hills are MORE than enough. What gold does is to speed up your earlygame, it will not carry you through the mid or lategame - actually, in the later stages of the games it's significantly worse than cottages, as it's food negative and your city will stagnate until you have Biology.
     
  18. junovalkyrie

    junovalkyrie Chieftain

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    Is this something that can be seen in the game files or are you basing it on experience?
     
  19. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    I don't think so. But if you were thinking of statistics, sure, given there are more AI's than a sole player. Increasing its chance one of them takes benefit of a strong start.
     
  20. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    The start generator logic is a bit twisted, but

    CvGame::assignStartingPlots has two separate phases. The first phase iterates through the players in turn order, setting a random starting plot to each player. The second phase then iterates through the players to find an actual starting plot.

    In this second phase, the order is broken up into three phases. In the first phase, some of the AI players find their plots. In the second phase, the human players find their plots, and in the third phase the remaining AI players find their plots. The number of AIs placed before the humans in this queue is determined by the handicap type of the game.

    Note: that's for single player - team games and multiplayer games use a different logic.

    So in theory, the AIs that get to go first have a slightly higher expectation for the initial value of the plots. The normalizer (for maps that use it) is supposed to close up the gaps somewhat.

    As far as I know, nobody has actually studied how much variation there is in starts, before and after normalization.
     

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