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Sixth grades girls in Texas to be forced to get vaccine against STD

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Narz, Feb 3, 2007.

  1. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    Not everyone in Europe got the black plague. Some villages didn't get it at all while others were wiped out. Oftentimes rich people got it worse than poor villagers, a probable cause is that many poor people couldn't afford the rich and unhealthy diets of the wealthy. Of course many poor villages were decimated, a major factor probably being poor hygeine, overcrowding and poor sanitation.

    So, have you gotten your shot?

    By the way, you still haven't submited your double-blind peer reviewed scientific study on the effectiveness of the HPV vaccine. How am I supposed to make a decision to inject myself with a product without this data?
     
  2. Pontiuth Pilate

    Pontiuth Pilate Republican Jesus!

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    Diet had nothing to do with the infection vectors of the plague.

    Cities got decimated because of high population density. Villages were passed over because of low population density and/or fewer connections to high-density areas. Textbook pandemic modelling.

    I will. Will you?

    I'd prefer to pay for the GlaxoSmithKline version that's coming out in a few years, but that's just a personal issue I have with giving money to Merck ;)

    It passed clinical trials. I assume you know how to use Google. Try "lancet + hpv" or "hpv + nejm" or "hpv + jama."
     
  3. Babbler

    Babbler Deity

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    Do you have any proof?
     
  4. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    You can't say for certain that it had nothing to do with it. Diet, excercise and social relationships play a major factor in health including resistance to disease.

    The studies do seem to indicate that the vaccine is effective. However, they don't talk about potential side effects. Being that the rate of death from HPV is about .02% (2 out of 10,000) and that my girlfriend is far more health conscious than the average individual I'm not too worried.

    On the other hand the rate of death from car accidents is almost 2% (100 times as high as HPV death), 44.3% (car accidents) of 4.4% (total accidental deaths). Are you going to not allow your girlfriend/wife/mistress/etc. to drive because of this potential hazard?

    Well, looking further into it via Google Scholar, it seems the supposed link between vaccines and autism has been mostly disproven by further studies. Looks like I was wrong in that instance.
     
  5. Pontiuth Pilate

    Pontiuth Pilate Republican Jesus!

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    I can say for certain. The areas that were spared weren't spared because they were especially resistant, but because they had minimal exposure to infection vectors. Resistance across Europe was token. You couldn't (and can't) fight off the plague by being especially healthy, it's a question of relative immunity.

    And the death rate from cervical cancer is much, much higher.

    What's the problem here, are you still denying that HPV causes cancer?

    I minimize risks where they're minimizable. Obviously, if there's a quick and cheap fix to a leading cause of cancer, I'm going to try and make sure everyone gets it. If someone invented a car that was 10 times as safe as any other on the market, I'd shell out for it, sure.
     
  6. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    You speak pretty assuredly considering it happened hundreds of years before you were born. Anyway, are you saying health doesn't effect immunity?

    The death rate is less than 4,000 a year in a country of over 300,000,000. Not very likely and not worth the potential risks of vaccination. Granted only half female and a further large chunk under 40-50 but still a quite a small risk in the scheme of things.

    But you don't know the potential drawbacks to the vaccine. Cheap fixes usually have hidden costs. What are the ingrediants to the vaccine? Does it contain mercury? How long has it been around? What are the side effects? Any potential long term side effects (and how can we know if it's a relatively new vaccine)? All these have to be factored into the cost-benefit analysis. And, of course, the cost.

    Me too. Especially if it was fuel efficient and/or non-petroleum based. :)
     
  7. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

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    A timeline of mmr research.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4311613.stm

    An Article debunking the claim.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1808956.stm

    Basically Dr Andrew Wakefield, then a reader in experimental gastroenterology at London's Royal Free Hospital, published a study suggesting there could be a link. The world and his wife then conducted more extensive studies and discovered there was no stastical correleation.

    The press whipped up a panic (autistic toddlers and weeping yummy-mummies on the sofa of the day-time chatshows). Parents started refusing the shot. This became so widespread the herd immunity was being threatened. Even the quality papers were doing "should you give your kids the shot" pieces. People started demanding the three shots seperately - dispite this being more dangerous for the kids.

    An object lessen that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
     
  8. StarWorms

    StarWorms Deity

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    Condoms break

    Wives/girlfriends can cheat or may already have an STD, whether they know or not.
     
  9. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    Dude these were times when people chucked their sewage in the street because they didn't know any better. What the hell do you think you are accomplishing downplaying the significance of the Black Death anyway? Pah, it only killed a third of Europe after all, twas nothing.

    I note you are now feeding your cats properly, by your own argument this could be more to do with the health of your cats than whether or not they've been vaccinated. A weakened immune system (such as may result from an improper diet) is not going to be able to fight an infection it would have no problems with if it were healthy. Go give your cats their shots as well and they'll be much better off.

    I understand your objection to the flu vaccine, but then the flu vaccine doesn't even claim to prevent flu - it can only target specific strains, you find a different strain you need a new vaccine. Invalid comparison.

    MMR does not cause or increase risk of autism.
     
  10. Neonanocyborgasm

    Neonanocyborgasm Deity

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    It's amazing the amount of controversy this issue is generating, and all over nothing.

    It's simple. The HPV vaccine has been confirmed in a recent randomized clinical trial (tested on humans) to prevent infection with those strains of HPV that cause cervical cancer. Yes, HPV doesn't cause all cervical cancers, just 90% of them. That's as good as all of them. HPV has dozens of strains, but not all of them cause cancer. Some cause genital warts and some do nothing. The HPV vaccine is only specific for the #6, 11, 16, and 18 strains that cause cervical cancer, so it probably will not prevent genital warts (not tested, btw).

    The decision about whether to give it is a simple risk vs. benefit analysis. The benefit of the vaccine is that it is guaranteed to prevent cervical cancer. The risk is nothing. Looking up the adverse effects, I found that it may cause injection site reaction, fever, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Those are the same risks as for every vaccine. So, essentially, Gardasil has plenty of benefits and no risk. That's a no-brainer.

    The reason that Merck is probably pushing so hard to be the supplier of the vaccine is because its competitor, GlaxoSmithKline (thanks to Pontiuth Pilate for the source) is going to be releasing its version of the vaccine soon, so it wants to corner the market before that happens. The notion that getting an anti-STD vaccine will increase promiscuity is preposterous. If your little girl is a good girl, she has nothing to worry about whether she gets the vaccine or not. If she's a bad girl, not getting the vaccine will not deter her.
     
  11. Mr. Do

    Mr. Do Emperor

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    Jesus Christ, if business kept out of government affairs, that would mean basically the end of the entire American political system. Possibly not the end of the world, but would you really like to go there? ;)
     
  12. Gogf

    Gogf Indescribable

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    Even though this is a vaccine against the virus that causes 90% of the instances of cervical cancer?
     
  13. woody60707

    woody60707 Deity

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    I think we are talking past each other a bit.

    I agree with most everyone here. HPV saves life, it's silly to think this will make kids have sex (nature does that already). ect ect.

    But forcing kids to get the HPV shot to attend public school would be the same as saving all girls going to community college must get a HPV school. (well it would be more fair to make community college girls get the shot being they are not forced to go to attend post HS educational systems) but other colleges didn't need to.

    But if its such an easy case, that any sane person would get the shot (i would be one of those sane people) why not just give it out at for free (tax funded) at public places (public school, city hall, ect ect.)

    also as i have said before, school is a right, you should use a right to enforce policy on people.
     
  14. ParkCungHee

    ParkCungHee Deity

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    No they can't, insistance on bigotry doesn't change that. No one has ever come up with a way that a vaccine can completely change around the structure of your brain, nor demonstrated that vaccines can. Its something Autistiphobes shrill out to vindicate their bigotry and quacks use to make money off of parents who hate their kids.
     
  15. Pontiuth Pilate

    Pontiuth Pilate Republican Jesus!

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    Boy does that sum up the last few pages of this thread.

    And the Jurassic was millions of years before I was born. HOW DO U NO, MISTAR SZIENTIST! U WAREN'T THAR!

    Remember what I said about unwittingly allying yourself with more dangerous fools?

    You pretty much just debunked your own disingenuous twisting of the facts. Look at the at-risk population for the death rate.
     
  16. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    I'm too lazy to find stats for women over 40 but I'm sure it's still a huge number compared to the death rate.

    Until there are long term studies done on the safety of these vaccines I would not consider it responsible to get them.

    Same with drugs.


    What are you talking about?

    Mercury can cause brain damage. Are you saying chemicals and chemical compounds cannot alter brain chemestry? Because that's a quite ridiculous claim.
     
  17. Xanikk999

    Xanikk999 History junkie

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    Narz, you need to learn to get your sources from reputable websites. That link certainly was a load of bunk.
     
  18. ParkCungHee

    ParkCungHee Deity

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    Well if you claimed that Vaccines caused Gayness, you would rightly be condemned as a bigot, you shouldn't get away with doing the same to autistics.


    1) Autism isn't brain damage.
    2) I said brain structure, not chemistry, I mean completely rearrage the way the brain is physically built.
     
  19. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    News Flash : Environmental factors can contribute to autism.

    Austism is not a life sentence, it can be cured. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son-Rise (I've met Raun Kauffman, by the way)
     
  20. Xanikk999

    Xanikk999 History junkie

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