Sixth grades girls in Texas to be forced to get vaccine against STD

[.Shane.]

You can bet if I had a daughter she wouldn't be getting the shots! At least people can still opt out for philosophical and religious reasons. I wonder if they have to write an essay.

Thus, I think you're misrepresenting things. Your thread title says "forced" when you know that's not at all true.

This is no different than how public schools require vaccines for students entering kindergarten. In fact, seeing as how this is optional, its even less intrusive.

You better believe that Merck's doing this before its competitor can get its version of the vaccine out!

And I smell payoff from drug companies.

Now, here's the real area for concern. I found it surprising that a Republican in a blue state was pushing this. But, guess what, Gov. Perry is pretty closely tied to the manufacturer of the drug, SURPRISE SURPRISE.

So, I guess that means he won't be advocating for a generic equivalent to be offered to help minimize the cost of this new requirement.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

No, the flu shot is nortoriously ineffective (in my persona experience with myself and others). And no, it's an infringment on a person's most basic human rights.

Lack of sleep and lack of exercise can greatly reduce the effectiveness of the vaccine. Virtually all of my friends who got the flu anyway after getting the vaccine were the sleep deprived couch potatoes.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/

 

[GinandTonic]

Lack of sleep and lack of exercise can greatly reduce the effectiveness of the vaccine. Virtually all of my friends who got the flu anyway after getting the vaccine were the sleep deprived couch potatoes.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/

The flu vaccine is something of a bad example. It provides no long term herd immunity and has a (in terms of a vaccine) low success rate and a high rate of adverse reactions. It really isnt in the same league as most other vaccines and isnt a fair object of comparison.

 

[Narz]

Thus, I think you're misrepresenting things. Your thread title says "forced" when you know that's not at all true.

You're right, I'll edit the title.

Edit : maybe the mods can change it. Users can't edit thread titles.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

For information: Users can edit their own thread title within the first hour or so by clicking the title box from the topic list.

 

[Narz]

Here's an interesting, relevant article about one of the modern plagues of mankind (polio) and the questioning of it's origins.

http://www.theecologist.org/archive_detail.asp?content_id=278

Text too long to repost here so click the link if interested.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

So, I guess that means he won't be advocating for a generic equivalent to be offered to help minimize the cost of this new requirement.

As long as there's a patent out on the vaccine, there will be no generic version. I believe these patents have a lifespan of about 10 years. Still, the drug companies have notorious ways of extending that patent. For example, they'll come up with new indications for the same drug. The FDA will then investigate the claims for this new indication, almost always accept it (because it is usually based on off-label use anyway), and so you have a prolonged patent. The HPV vaccine's other indication might be for genital warts, or even just plain warts.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

Here's an interesting, relevant article about one of the modern plagues of mankind (polio) and the questioning of it's origins.

http://www.theecologist.org/archive_detail.asp?content_id=278

Text too long to repost here so click the link if interested.

I read the article and realize it is clearly written by an idiot. There are so many factual errors in it that it is worthless. It claims that because heavy metal poisoning once caused paralysis, that perhaps modern pollutants may cause them too, without offering any evidence of such. That's as legitimate as saying that because plague was a common cause of death in the Middle Ages, then therefore it may be a common cause of death today. Once the article started talking about the discovery of the poliovirus, it was clear to me that the author was a few fries short of a happy meal. It frequently insinuates that poliovirus either doesn't exist or doesn't cause paralysis. It also states that FDR was a victime of infantile paralysis. FDR was a full grown adult when he was struck with polio, not an infant.

The reality is this: Polio was not a widespread disease until the 20th century because of improved hygienic conditions and water purification, not pollution. Poliovirus is spread through contaminated water. It was once widespread in the water supply, and nearly everyone was exposed to it by age 2. Children exposed to the virus at that age usually do not manifest paralysis. They are able to fight off the disease without long term effects. Older children and adults are a different story. Because of advances in water purification, exposure to poliovirus was increasingly delayed later in life, leading to higher frequencies of paralysis. The reason that paralysis was attributed to heavy metal poisoning is because heavy metal poisoning also causes neuropathy, which looks the same, and also because viruses were not discovered until around 1900.

 

[Narz]

So then you are sure there are no link between heavy metal poisoning and polio?

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

So then you are sure there are no link between heavy metal poisoning and polio?

None whatsoever. The article makes it seem like it's revealing some kind of secret knowledge. The origins of both polio and heavy metal poisoning have been well known for decades.

 

[Mr. Do]

Now, here's the real area for concern. I found it surprising that a Republican in a blue state was pushing this. But, guess what, Gov. Perry is pretty closely tied to the manufacturer of the drug, SURPRISE SURPRISE.

So, I guess that means he won't be advocating for a generic equivalent to be offered to help minimize the cost of this new requirement.

It will have costed Merck hundreds of millions of dollars and several years to develop this vaccine, so I don't think it's unfair that the company make some money out of the lives they're saving, is it? They won't have the patent for very many years, and GSK are coming out with a similar vaccine soon, futher eroding their profit margins.

Would you rather live in a world where there was no commercial incentive to help people? And therefore very much fewer of these drugs and vaccines...

 

[.Shane.]

It will have costed Merck hundreds of millions of dollars and several years to develop this vaccine, so I don't think it's unfair that the company make some money out of the lives they're saving, is it? They won't have the patent for very many years, and GSK are coming out with a similar vaccine soon, futher eroding their profit margins.

Would you rather live in a world where there was no commercial incentive to help people? And therefore very much fewer of these drugs and vaccines...

.... You're missing my point and making false assumptions.

My point is that if you're going to make it mandatory then you need to make it affordable. Did you miss the part where I mentioned that the governor who is behind this has substantial ties to the drug company?

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

.... You're missing my point and making false assumptions.

My point is that if you're going to make it mandatory then you need to make it affordable. Did you miss the part where I mentioned that the governor who is behind this has substantial ties to the drug company?

I believe the cost will come out of the state, not the parents of the schoolgirls.

 

[Mr. Do]

.... You're missing my point and making false assumptions.

My point is that if you're going to make it mandatory then you need to make it affordable. Did you miss the part where I mentioned that the governor who is behind this has substantial ties to the drug company?

I'm not missing your point, and made no assumptions; rather, I made statements and asked questions. You stated, if you'll cast your mind back a few hours, "So, I guess that means he won't be advocating for a generic equivalent to be offered to help minimize the cost of this new requirement."

In case you don't know what a generic is, it's a version of a drug or vaccine or whatever that is produced by another company, usually at a much lower cost. When a generic is available, the profitability of a product obviously drops massively. You were saying this generic should be available from the start. So you were SPECIFICALLY saying that action should be taken so that the company does not make as much money from providing the vaccine.

Yes, the Governor in question does have ties to Merck. However, that is pretty much irrelevent as even an unaffiliated politician would not suggest crippling the drug companies that save thousands of lives through their darned profit-seeking.

 

[.Shane.]

In case you don't know what a generic is, it's a version of a drug or vaccine or whatever that is produced by another company, usually at a much lower cost. When a generic is available, the profitability of a product obviously drops massively. You were saying this generic should be available from the start. So you were SPECIFICALLY saying that action should be taken so that the company does not make as much money from providing the vaccine.

Yes, the Governor in question does have ties to Merck. However, that is pretty much irrelevent as even an unaffiliated politician would not suggest crippling the drug companies that save thousands of lives through their darned profit-seeking.

Let me elaborate.

Yeah, I understand the patent laws at work here. What I'm getting at is that part of this should be that if you're going to, essentially, mandate millions of vaccinations then you should mitigate the cost. Maybe you do that by having the drug co. heavily discount because of the guaranteed volume of customers for the vaccination.

 

[Bill3000]

I'd defend myself with physical force against anyone trying to force me to submit to a medical or surgical procedure against my will.

You have Ebola, and must be quarintined, otherwise spread it through the rest of the population of your city. Still defending yourself with physical force?

 

[Mr. Do]

Let me elaborate.

Yeah, I understand the patent laws at work here. What I'm getting at is that part of this should be that if you're going to, essentially, mandate millions of vaccinations then you should mitigate the cost. Maybe you do that by having the drug co. heavily discount because of the guaranteed volume of customers for the vaccination.

What makes you think they already don't? That's an assumption...

 

[.Shane.]

What makes you think they already don't? That's an assumption...

Hopefully, you're right. The couple articles I've read on this make no such mention of any of the kind, however.

 

[Mr. Do]

Well then let's assume that the Governor used his connections to work out a deal that's best for all involved, and only make accusations of improper business favouritism when any actual evidence of that arises. It's hardly a no-bid contract being granted to Halliburton in Iraq

 

[JollyRoger]

I believe the cost will come out of the state, not the parents of the schoolgirls.

So it's a transfer of wealth from the taxpayers to one of the governor's political donors? Nice.