Slavery Museum - Bad Idea?

Caligastia

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Recently a proposal to build a national slavery museum has been resurrected. http://www.starbanner.com/articles/news/403.shtml

Do you think this is a bad idea?

I am against this museum for the following reasons:

"Constant reminders of slavery suggest to Blacks that if they are more likely than Whites to be poor, in jail, on welfare, on drugs, have illegitimate children, or to drop out of school, it is not really their fault. It is, instead, the legacy of slavery and of the continuing racism that slavery is said to have burned into the minds of Whites.

The message for Whites is even more blunt: Whites are guilty of terrible crimes, from which all Blacks suffer to this day. The implication is that Whites should therefore agree to the demands of Blacks, whether for racial preferences, reparations for slavery, or calls for "sensitivity."

All this is extremely damaging. It helps no Black person to tell him that White wickedness, past and present -- and not his own abilities --determines whether he will succeed. Likewise, Whites are increasingly annoyed at being blamed for things they did not do.

At the same time, because one of the purposes of a slavery museum is to make Whites feel guilty, it would be likely to ignore or downplay certain facts: Slavery has been widespread in virtually every period of history, and was hardly unique to

America. Slavery was widely practiced in Africa long before the trans-Atlantic slave trade, and virtually every Black slave who came to North America was first enslaved by other Blacks and then sold to Whites. Slavery in Africa was abolished by Whites -- not by Blacks -- and in Sudan and Mauritania it continues to this day.

In the United States, the 1830 census found that more than 3,000 free Blacks owned slaves, and there were Black owners in every state in which slavery was legal. In 1830, free Blacks owned more than 10,000 slaves in just the four states of Louisiana, Maryland, Virginia and South Carolina:

Andrew Durnford of Louisiana owned more than 100 slaves. Madame Ciprien Ricard, also of Louisiana, owned 168 black slaves. Black masters bought and sold their property and offered rewards for runaways, just as White masters did.

At the same time, only a small minority of Whites were slave-holders. In the states of the Confederacy, only one in five White households owned slaves. Needless to say, the millions of Whites who are today descended from post-emancipation European immigrants had no ancestral involvement in slavery at all. Finally, slavery was ended by the efforts of Whites, not Blacks, and came at the end of a war that cost the lives of 600,000 White soldiers.

For all these reasons, slavery is hardly the simple tale of bad Whites and good Blacks many make it out to be. Any museum that slants the past, and that pits one race against another through excuse-making and guilt-mongering, will harm our society rather than help it."
 
It's an awful idea -- any objective observer would have to have a positive view of American history, for all of the great accomplishments of our people, not the great atrocities committed by people under which we had no control.
 
yes rmsharpe, why don't we just focus on the good that america does?


I disagree with the idea however. Blacks were used as slaves in england and all through out the world, but it only seems to get attention in america, maybe because of the civil war it caused. *Shrug*.
 
Finally, slavery was ended by the efforts of Whites, not Blacks, and came at the end of a war that cost the lives of 600,000 White soldiers.
Not true, think of all the black soldiers that died in the American Civil War. They did nothing to help free themselves?

From link:
Stearns said the victims of slavery deserve a memorial similar to the victims of the Holocaust, which a national museum already addresses.

''It pays tribute to those who suffered and perished under slavery in America . . . . Acknowledging slavery as a tragedy is very important,'' Stearns said on the House floor.
If this is what the memorial will be about than why should we feel that it is bad? I say make sure that the panel that is being assembled is a good mix of races and not just black people (a majority of black people is ok, but I'd like to see at least one white person and maybe an oriental and a hispanic).
 
Originally posted by scorch
yes rmsharpe, why don't we just focus on the good that america does?

I'm not saying that, but I was born in 1985 -- I wouldn't say I had a great influence on the ban of slavery in America.

I was simply saying that the U.S. has done more good things than bad.
 
I agree with all points made Caligastia. Because they are true. Slavery was an unfortunate part of society back then. I call this disgusting look back on history by people who werent there and have a chip on their shoulders 'biased historical retrospect'. It is sickeing to hear of these peole demanding money for their ancestors slavery. Cal made some very good points about cases of slavery. One man in Louisiana, John McDounogh freed all his slave and sent them back to africa.

PhaleHorse76
If this is what the memorial will be about than why should we feel that it is bad? I say make sure that the panel that is being assembled is a good mix of races and not just black people (a majority of black people is ok, but I'd like to see at least one white person and maybe an oriental and a hispanic).

It wouldnt matter who was one the board for this project, the musem would end up being a rascist fun house.
 
The reason I have serious doubts that the museum would be fair and objective is because I really dont think there will be any mention of the black slavers in africa who sold the slaves in the first place.
 
Originally posted by Caligastia
The reason I have serious doubts that the museum would be fair and objective is because I really dont think there will be any mention of the black slavers in africa who sold the slaves in the first place.

If there wouldn't be something about the black peolple who sold their own kind to white slave traders and just focusing on slavery in the America's, I would not call it a museum, but more something like PR for the black people who want money for their great-great-great-grandparent who were slaves.

BTW I didn't know there were black slave owners in America, sounds a bit strange. (not that I don't believe it though, they had slaves in Africa, so why not in America?)
 
Yes there where quite a few blacks who owned slaves. One example would be Melrose plantation. Durrring the recunstruction the northern carpetbaggers took the owner's, a black lady, property just as they did with all the others. Also I belive it is a misconception on the actual number of slave people owned. Somewhere around 80% of people who owned slaves at that time owned between 1 and 2 slaves.
 
Perhaps if this museum mentioned the fact that there is still slavery in this world today, and we must never forget the rights Democracies worldwide have which prevent us or others from being slaves. Perhaps it is too early for such a museum but like the World wars, it must never be forgotten. History all too often repeats itself. On topic I remember a History thread in the History Forum which stated the following scenario:

'Okay, if a superior technological nation lands on your shores and demands slaves, what else can you do? Better slaves from rivals than your own people.'

It seemed to have failed to mention that this type of transaction has been going on for a very long time in the Arabic Middle East, (probably still does) . In reply to this second point I recieved the answer:

'It wasn't as many people as when the Europeans came'

I say slavery is slavery and although now may not be the best time for a museum about it, surely it creeps into the American civil war, despite several Union states continuing slaving.
World emancipation, anyone?
 
Originally posted by scorch
yes rmsharpe, why don't we just focus on the good that america does?

You expected anything different?

Originally posted by scorch
I disagree with the idea however. Blacks were used as slaves in england and all through out the world, but it only seems to get attention in america, maybe because of the civil war it caused. *Shrug*.

While slavery gets most of the attention when looking at the American Civil War's causes, it was not the main cause. The war was more about economics and the differences from an industrial north and an agrarian south. Slavery came into the picture later and was used as the moral high ground and a way to keep England and France from helping the South. Lincoln has been quoted as saying something to the effect of: If I can preserve the Union by freeing all the slaves, that is what I will do. If I can perserve the Union by freeing none of the slaves, that is what I will do. If I can perserve the Union by freeing some and letting others remain slaves, then I shall do that.

My thoughts on a slavery museum. It can be done right, if it is looked at as slavery as a whole, if done as a White American slaveholders museum, it will miss its larger calling.

As far as Black tribes in Africa selling their own slaves to Europeans, just present the facts, all of them. Tell how long African slavery had been going on. Tell of the slave missions, and what they paid, tell of the boats, tell everything. When everything is told the story becomes less a race against race thing, and more of a human tragedy.
 
I think it's fine. Sheesh, if Africans in Brittain want to do it there, then that's fine, too. Some of the objections I see here are similar to those of my family when I was 10 or 11 and Roots was on T.V.

My Mom and all of her familly are from Tennessee.....and very racist. They were SOOOO bitter about Roots being on. Some of the most memorable bullcrap I remember are things like, "It'll just get them N----'s all riled up." Or, "See, they did it to themselves. Their own kind did it to them."....referring to the fact that so many Africans helped to round up those from rival tribes. Yeah, and? I don't see what that has to do with anything, really.

It cracks me up that all us white folk like to dwell on that one litte, really insignifagant fact. I mean, really. How many times has it already been mentioned in this thread.

That would be like focussing on Benedict Arnold as a main issue in the American Revolution, when his turning really turned out to be quite insignifigant as far as the result goes. It would have happened the same, anyway.

It's not like we were only doing it with their expressed permission and wouldn't have done it without it. Ridiculous. :rolleyes: With or without the help of other Africans, Europeans would have still been there, hunting them down, binding them in chains and taking them away to slavery.

And, no matter how you slice it, the overall root cause of the American Civil War was slavery. It was the thorn in the side of every issue, PARTICULARLY those of an economic nature. This is because the two economies, north and south, were so different.

The issues of states' rights and the differences between the two regions were all pretty much rooted in the question of slavery. At least for the 20 years leading up to the election of Lincoln. Every state that joined the Union during this time opened the wound again. Is it a slave state, or not? Does a state have a right to choose this sort of thing? Or not?

The reason slavery is most remembered is due partly to the civil war caused by it, but also because WE were the reluctant ones to give it up.

I say, fine, if the only way their going to be able to have a Slavery Museum without half the racists in the US sh!tting their pants is to have a special little section on that one little, insignfigant fact, then fine, add the freakin' room.
 
By the way, there were also Jews that turned on other Jews and informed on them to the Nazis.

Does anybody really think that, in order for it to be ok with them for there to be a Holocaust Museum, there needs to be a special room based on this fact????

Same thing.....

Otherwise is it just PR for the Jews? LOL, that is doubly ridiculous. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Just let them have their Museum and, if you don't like it, stay a freakin' way!! :mad:
 
Originally posted by VoodooAce
By the way, there were also Jews that turned on other Jews and informed on them to the Nazis.
Does anybody really think that, in order for it to be ok with them for there to be a Holocaust Museum, there needs to be a special room based on this fact????
Same thing.....
Otherwise is it just PR for the Jews? LOL, that is doubly ridiculous. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Good point. Well not really. The truth should be told and it would be a shame if the Jewish Holocaust museums didn't say anything about the fact that certain Jews turned in other Jews.
Originally posted by VoodooAce
Just let them have their Museum and, if you don't like it, stay a freakin' way!! :mad:
No, if I don't agree with it I will not just turn my back and ignore it, especially if they use tax money! If it is a bad idea I have every right to tell anyone, who will listen, my opinion. I happen to feel that the fact that the African's were selling their own people is not a minor one but is IMO a great one. Maybe the descendants of the American slaves deserve something (I don't feel that they deserve anything but a fair chance in life and a guarantee that there will not be prejudice when it comes to hiring workers) but Americans aren't the only ones guilty for what happened to the slaves from Africa. I think that it should be told that they were betrayed by their own countrymen as I think that is a greater tragedy.
 
do some of you really believe that closing your eyes is best thing to do? this reminds me of the erasing of the bad things japan did during ww2 from the japanese school books.

"Constant reminders of slavery suggest to Blacks that if they are more likely than Whites to be poor, in jail, on welfare, on drugs, have illegitimate children, or to drop out of school, it is not really their fault. It is, instead, the legacy of slavery and of the continuing racism that slavery is said to have burned into the minds of Whites.
this sounds like racism to me. do you mean that the blacks can´t handle the information?

just because most of the bad guys was white but not all of them and that slavery is widespread through the history, so should not black people be able to walk into a museum and see how their ancestors lived? ridiculous.
 
Scorch...Black slavery in England...only to a tiny degree...furthermore alot of that was as servants NOT slaves as they were curiosities. Slavery works usually when there is a need of labour but no-one willing to take it up...

In Britain slavery couldn't work because it would make so many people unemployed and people wouldn't stand idly by and let imported slaves make them unemployed.

In the Americas on the plantations where they needed labourers and yet the number of white immigrants wanting to do the grunt work for a low wage was tiny. Slavery filled the gap in the market.


As for this museum of slavery: I would say that a presentation on the facts of slavery would be very beneficial for people knowing their own history.

MY concern is that is will be a political statement by those wanting to get reparations for the slave trade...countries like Zimbabwe that never had slavery enforced on them. Countries that never existed when the trade was allowed...

As I've said before I think in off-topic...slavery was a trade that Africans sold themselves into and it was practiced by the Arabs aswell (less fuss made of that though!). The descendants of slaves have done in the main alot better for being taken to the USA than their counterparts in Africa...in many respects they were the lucky ones.

If the museum operates in a way to fully inform people on slavery rather than just showing how people suffered under it (the people sent weren't taken by the whites, they were captives of warrior tribes such as the Ashanti or subjects of rather brutal warlords), then I think it could be good. That it could show a progression brought on by whites to end the trade world-wide and an gradual move to give blacks their due civil rights then I could approve of that too. People are too quick to forget that it was Britain and France that did the most to end the trade...it certainly wasn't any action (e.g resistance) by any African Nation/people/whatever.

P.S I agree with you aimepornstar that the selected quote you made does sound racist...more than that it sounds like people are supposed to forget this episode in American history and the continued racism...hell it was MLK day only a few days back! Maybe it is time for some information to be posted at civfanatics to highlight this...I'll get to that soon.
 
I don't think Jews think of "evil German people" who exist in the present, when they visit a museum or memorial to Holocaust victims.

Such museums should be privately funded though--and I would probably give a small donation myself, as would many people. And they should tell as much of the story as is feasible in the space provided.

VoodooAce: "It's not like we were only doing it with their expressed permission and wouldn't have done it without it. Ridiculous. With or without the help of other Africans, Europeans would have still been there, hunting them down, binding them in chains and taking them away to slavery."

Not so sure about that. Look at other colonies the Europeans had. Sure the locals weren't always treated very well, but I haven't heard of Europeans outright owning slaves imported from India, Indochina, or other colonies outside Africa--and they at one time or other had just as much control of those lands. I think (I'll defer to more knowledgeable historians on this, if they surface here) that many African peoples had a slavery culture among them for centuries before Europeans penetrated Africa, perhaps started by Arab merchants during their expansions there, or perhaps existing even before that. THIS apparent fact is probably what ENABLED Europeans to take advantage of it. Without the help of many Africans, taking slaves by force would probably have been very impractical given that such a war would have ended up killing most of the prospects anyway. They didn't try this in other lands they colonized, from what I hear (well, except the Spanish, who DID forcibly subjugate many indigenous people in Central and South America, using them as both public and personal slaves).

There was, of course, the notion of the "strong, big" African (I forget the words that were used, but it was something like that) that would make basically very good strong workers, but aside from that distinction I think the main reason the Europeans adopted slavery of Africans was that slavery was THERE for the taking....

If the museum is "done" right it shouldn't fan the flames of the current "PC wars"--they'll be there whether there's a museum or not--but give a fair tribute to some people who WERE at the wrong place at the wrong time, and subject to a wrong (doesn't matter WHICH people started the wrong, slavery is still a wrong), and ended up building much of this country.
 
Originally posted by PaleHorse76
Good point. Well not really. The truth should be told and it would be a shame if the Jewish Holocaust museums didn't say anything about the fact that certain Jews turned in other Jews.
No, if I don't agree with it I will not just turn my back and ignore it, especially if they use tax money! If it is a bad idea I have every right to tell anyone, who will listen, my opinion. I happen to feel that the fact that the African's were selling their own people is not a minor one but is IMO a great one. Maybe the descendants of the American slaves deserve something (I don't feel that they deserve anything but a fair chance in life and a guarantee that there will not be prejudice when it comes to hiring workers) but Americans aren't the only ones guilty for what happened to the slaves from Africa. I think that it should be told that they were betrayed by their own countrymen as I think that is a greater tragedy.

No, wrong. You are out there, my man. The greatest tragedy is not that Africans sold out other Africans. The real tragedy is these people were enslaved for hundreds of years. If we can't agree on that, then I doubt we could agree on anything. How they were enslaved is a footnote to the real issue......that they were enslaved at all. Obviously!!! :mad:

What about all of the WWII museums. What if I were to demand that they ALL include referrences to Americans who sold us out, in one way or another. It is the same thing. If I went around to all of the museums, POW let's say, and said, "I don't like this museum. It needs a whole room devoted to those Americans that sold us out." Of course, some of these museums, operating on tax dollars and shoestring budgets, would have to close. I would rightfully be called an absolute idiot.

How do you think the POW's would feel about this????
 
While it is true that Caligastia raises some good points, I think that, considering the number of monuments that the South has created to their civil war heros, there would be no great harm done to give someone who is biased the other way a say as well. In addition to this, I must comment that, if done correctly (not that it likely would be, but who knows) a museum of this sort could present accurate history in a manner that didn't hurt anyone in particular, rather than just increasing racial tension.
 
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