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Slavery, The Whip, and You

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Demo Game: Citizens' started by Fetch, Jun 26, 2006.

  1. Fetch

    Fetch When in doubt, reboot.

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    My fellow citizens,

    Much has been made in the Govenor's Council thread about the whip. Some are for it liberally, some are for it in moderation, and some are against wholeheartedly. I have this to say about the situation, and with this, I hope to spark a discussion to resolve some of the issues.

    Fact: We are running the labor civic SLAVERY. What does this mean but we have slaves? Slaves build our buildings and work our mines. Look out your windows. Those are slaves out there doing the daily work of our empire.

    Keeping this in mind, what does "the whip" mean? It means we (the govenors) work the enslaved people of our cities so hard that they die. In return for this extra energy, the dead slaves have generated more production :)hammers:) than they typically would. For example, the city gets a new library, and the slaves that built it were worked to death by the overlords to make that happen.

    So when we consider using the whip, we are still using slaves that get whipped all the time. We just get out a longer whip that ultimately takes their lives. For those agains whipping, I say that they should petition us to change civics and free the slaves. We whip every day, but it is rare that we use the whip to the death.

    Now, for my two cents. The civic we have chosen is slavery. We are hurting ourseves if we don't use it to it's fullest. If the citizens want to vote to change civics, that's fine by me, but I see a civic of slavery as a go-ahead for govenors to use "the whip" as they see fit.

    Please discuss and debate!
     
  2. ice2k4

    ice2k4 Emperor

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    I believe that every time the governor's want to use the whip, they should post it somewhere in the citizen's forum a few days before the turnchat. If five or more citizens petition to not use the whip, then the governor's should seriously re-consider their decision.

    There are times where the whip needs to be used. Sometimes a city will require a certain building, maybe the Germans will be on the verge of invading a city, and having an extra unit there would help our defense.

    But there are other times when some governors want to use the whip so their city can become more productive. It is my personal view that the whip should only be used when nessecary, and the citizens have the right to object, however the MoI and the governor in question have the final say.

    My proposed plan, although it shouldnt be written in stone (or the CoL) is:
    Every time the governor want's to sue the whip, he posts a thread in the citizens forum, two days minimum before a turnchat. If 5 citizens object openly, then the governor in question should re-consider his decision along with the MoI. If both officials feel strongly about using the whip, then they have the final say. Just go with the common-sense law.
     
  3. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    It's better to be whipped than conquered by the Germans.
     
  4. ice2k4

    ice2k4 Emperor

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    Yes it is, and a war with Germany in my eyes is when the whip becomes necessary.
     
  5. robboo

    robboo Deity

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    Whip if used correctly..dont whip to a point where you can not maintain workign teh necessary tiles and dont whip if it will cause more unhapines than you can handle. It should only be used during war since the population gain in some cities is so slow that it would take alot longer to recover. It should not be used in rear cities because thsoe are going to be needed for long term production and to decrease their population will harm us by slowing down our economy even more.

    Whipping is a delicate balance..too much and you cant work tiles, too little and we could lose a city. I think the whipping orders have to be thought of and DISCUSSED in the governor thread so that all of our cities dont whip adn we lose massive production in the following turns. Looking for short term fixes like whipping and chopping forests hide a longer term problem of poor city management. We have to use both carefully to benefit.
     
  6. ice2k4

    ice2k4 Emperor

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    Totally agreed.
     
  7. Fetch

    Fetch When in doubt, reboot.

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    I guess what I'm getting at is the folks that have a morale disdain for using the whip should be petitioning to change our civic. Of course, we all condem slavery in real life, but it's only a game. I agree that the whip shouldn't be used all the time, the penalties will outweigh the benefits then. Who agrees with this?
     
  8. Oldbus

    Oldbus Chief of Confusion

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    I agree - I think there are times in game where the whip is appropriate.

    EDIT: and I agree that having Germany declare war on us may mean that more of those times arise
     
  9. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    If a city is under direct attack, I can understand the whip. But as Mayor of Abydos I will rather submit to foreign rule than prove myself to be an inferior human. I have too much compasion for my slaves to beat them so senselessly that they die. It takes a long time to train new slaves, and I like the ones I have.
     
  10. ice2k4

    ice2k4 Emperor

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    Oh, that's why George's children only look half Licentian =P.

    Seriously though, I believe that if one front-line city is in a high threat of being captured, a neighbor city should be a good neighbor and may have to use the whip. I don't think Bismark will be so frightened that he'll want to give us back one of our fine cities in peace talks.
     
  11. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

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    If you didn't want to whip, then why did you even switch to Slavery in the first place? It sounds like Germany caught us off gaurd. We may need it.
     
  12. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    At the time (pre-patch) Slavery was cheaper for our economy. Also, having slaves doesn't mean you have to whip them.
     

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