Slowing Down Research?

[Tiberias]

I know it's been mentioned before, but the overall research rate is too high. Game after game after game, the research rate is 100-odd years ahead of schedule. The primary culprits are a surviving Rome, as well as the other Europeans; France, Britain, etc. The primary impact on playability is to make it more difficult for isolated or late-arriving powers, and considerably easier for the Europeans.

One simply fix would be to neuter the research bonuses. Do the Europeans really need any kind of bonus? They have multiple neighbors and engage in tech-trading on a very regular basis, which would, in my opinion, effectively capture the very reason why they were ahead in technology historically. The bonus, in my opinion, is redundant. The penalty for certain old-world powers makes more sense; they were resistant to technological change and lagged behind, so there may be a justification.

But toning down the research bonus--especially for Rome, to limit runaway Roman victories--would be an important step to balancing the game, in my opinion.

 

[onedreamer]

I think euros need more wars, that would be enough. Have you tried playing with Agressive AI turned on ?

 

[ambassoon]

How do you turn on Agressive AI? Is it a worldbuilder thing, or just moving up a level?

 

[onedreamer]

you need to edit the .ini file to allow custom games. Then you start a custom game where you activate the option.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I think euros need more wars, that would be enough. Have you tried playing with Agressive AI turned on ?

I thought in RFC Aggressive AI is on by default?

 

[Metal Alloy Man]

No, the default AI is just more aggresive/more somewhat random wars.

 

[deanej]

Aggressive AI is set in the scenario files, at least with the BtS version.

 

[onedreamer]

right it already is, so I don't have many ideas, much has already been done to counter the problem. I think the tech rate is ok now, and Rome isn't that big monster as long as the human player doesn't trade with them.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I often see Rome collapse. Sure, sometimes Rome survives, but I don't see a problem with occasional strong Rome.

 

[Rhye]

Tiberias, which version are you playing?

 

[Ekmek]

maybe roll back some of the tech buildings like the university which gives a 100% boost

 

[civ_king]

maybe roll back some of the tech buildings like the university which gives a 100% boost

I thought it gave 50%?

 

[Deego3]

No its a 25%

 

[ThurinEthir]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Unis give 25% to research and +3 to culture. Observatories are the same, but with no culture.
Unless he's referring to Oxford. I don't remember what effect that has though. (I know the Channel Tunnel gives +100% research)

 

[dragodon64]

I don't think Oxford is in the mod, in its place comes the much later Channel Tunnel (same Uni prereqs and effect, different tech). Nerfing the Europeans bonus would be the most logical choice.

On another note, I don't know much about Ethiopian history, but were they about as advanced as Arabs or Europeans during the middle ages? Because Ethiopians in my games usually are, and it seems a little strange.

 

[onedreamer]

The Middle Ages main trait is that there was little technological advancement, so yeah I would say they were pretty much all at the same level, one or two techs difference.

the Channel Tunnel is a world wonder btw, not national like Oxford.

 

[The Q-Meister]

I often see Rome collapse. Sure, sometimes Rome survives, but I don't see a problem with occasional strong Rome.

I agree I see AI Rome collapsing at some point in virtually every game. Even the times they survive the classical era they almost always collapse by the renaissance.

In fact the only classical era civ (AI controlled) that I see going into the modern era without collapsing once is maybe Japan.

 

[Tiberias]

Tiberias, which version are you playing?

The latest, I think--1.184 for BtS, although I'll check that.

As far as Civ survivals, most of the Ancient Civs survive into the Middle Ages, and some beyond; the only consistent deaths are Egypt, Carthage, and usually Greece. But to return to my original point, there is often enough tech trading that Europe progresses at a relatively fast clip. I'm just not sure that the tech bonuses are justified. The game is very often 30 to 50 turns "ahead of schedule"; that's less of an issue in the late game (1900 vs 1950 isn't such a huge deal), but in the mid-game it can produce bizarre results, especially with the late-arriving Civs--like Turkey waking up next to Rome and Babylon armed with Musketeers in 1290 A.D.

 

[civ_king]

The latest, I think--1.184 for BtS, although I'll check that.

As far as Civ survivals, most of the Ancient Civs survive into the Middle Ages, and some beyond; the only consistent deaths are Egypt, Carthage, and usually Greece. But to return to my original point, there is often enough tech trading that Europe progresses at a relatively fast clip. I'm just not sure that the tech bonuses are justified. The game is very often 30 to 50 turns "ahead of schedule"; that's less of an issue in the late game (1900 vs 1950 isn't such a huge deal), but in the mid-game it can produce bizarre results, especially with the late-arriving Civs--like Turkey waking up next to Rome and Babylon armed with Musketeers in 1290 A.D.

indeed, that is most disturbing... we need to stop the IA from gifting their unique units to other civs... but why would France do that??? ( BTW Musketeers are France's UU others get Musketmen)

 

[Cethegus]

The latest, I think--1.184 for BtS, although I'll check that.

As far as Civ survivals, most of the Ancient Civs survive into the Middle Ages, and some beyond; the only consistent deaths are Egypt, Carthage, and usually Greece. But to return to my original point, there is often enough tech trading that Europe progresses at a relatively fast clip. I'm just not sure that the tech bonuses are justified. The game is very often 30 to 50 turns "ahead of schedule"; that's less of an issue in the late game (1900 vs 1950 isn't such a huge deal), but in the mid-game it can produce bizarre results, especially with the late-arriving Civs--like Turkey waking up next to Rome and Babylon armed with Musketeers in 1290 A.D.

That reminds me of one strange bug when I rolled myself an auto-start with Rome... after it was done loading, I saved the game, opened the worldbuilder and took a look around the world...

...and noticed that Babylon was in the modern era with Infantry units garrisoned in their capital in 750 BC. I have no idea how they did that or what caused it, haven't seen it once ever since.