SMACX Factions

[The Beard]

Okay, I know that we are a long way off of actually needing to create the other factions, but I did have an idea of an interesting idea for how to implement the new factions. Because the general idea seems to be that the SMACX factions started up after planetfall, perhaps they (or at least the ones which make sense) could be used as secondary leaders for the current factions, either when you realize that you need to grant independence to part of your faction due to a sluggish economy, or if a civil war starts up in your faction. I would implement the civil war through the old-style Civ II method of if your capital is captured, there is a small chance that your civilization will split in two (I'm assuming that a measurement of unrest was taken into place). I know that that at least is possible, as it is one of the most advertised possibilities for mods that the CIV IV creators talked about from the moment they announced that CIV IV would use Python and XML.

For example, if the University has a good deal of unrest, and they aren't paying too much attention to research, then there is a chance that a civil war occurs (either because the capital was captured, or whatnot--what conditions would be necessary is up for debate), and The Conciousness led by Aki-Zeta 5 (who would perhaps have been Zakharov's top talent--if we actually do any interlude stuff, so there could be interesting bits of betrayal and whatnot) would rise up and lay claim to some of the cities of the University's Empire, and rename them the usual boring Conciousness names. This could also happen with the Hive sprouting off the Free Drones, the Gaians having the Cult split off from them, and I'm up in the air about the Data Angels and the Pirates.

Another possibility would be that at the edge of your territory, there would be a slight drop in your city populations, and you would discover that a new faction was created just outside your territory, and they announce their intentions to remain independent and whatnot.

I figured this could be a creative way to implement more factions, beyond simply having them be there from the start.

Also, I suppose the arrival of the Progenitors could cause some unrest and have new factions form.

What do you guys think?

 

[woodelf]

This sort of thing sounds like a really good idea.

 

[The Beard]

The only problem is that it is possible we would need more factions--unless we just count on that it isn't likely that more than 5 factions will split up within one game.

Eh, we'll just have Abraham Lincoln head up the split-off state of the UN Peacekeepers and Shaka Zulu take care of the Spartans, haha.

 

[The_Reckoning]

The Data Angels would most likely split off from Morgan, Roze was an employee IIRC.

 

[Anon Zytose]

What if we had it where more than one Vanilla SMAC faction was able to be the one to produce a Crossfire faction? Like the Planet Cult coming from the Gaians or Spartans (or even disaffected Believers)? Or the Angels breaking free from either the Morganites, Peacekeepers, or University? I admit it might be a bit imperfect, as I'm not entirely sure what factions other than the University would produce the Cybernetic Consciousness. Maybe the Hive and either Gaians or Spartans?

 

[The Beard]

It might be possible to just have for each SMAC faction, a set of possible factions which could split off. So maybe the Conciousness can only really come out of the University, but the other factions would be much more likely. I'm not sure how to handle that, as it might be necessary to have several copies of each of the SMACX factions, and then have the computer check to see if the Pirates already exist or something to that effect. Ideally, the SMACX factions would be possible to code once, but I'm not sure how the specifics of the Civil War idea work.

Another idea I had--If there is a sufficient amount of unrest in all or most of a faction's cities, then maybe it would be possible for there to be an assassination attempt. Say Morgan has a lot of unrest in his cities, and his economy is dragging. Then there would be an assassination attempt, which would have a chance of succeeding, and the faction would either erupt in civil war (another percentage chance) if the assassination was unsuccessful, or the assassination would carry through, and you would get a message like this:

"A splinter group of Morganites, styling themselves the Data Angels, have just assassinated CEO Nwabudike Morgan! Their leader, Sinder Roze, now styles herself Datajack Roze, and proclaims new leadership of the Morganite faction."

--And then there would be a set of options for how to proceed. Obviously, the Data Angels would count as a new faction, so any previous arrangement with Morgan would be cancelled--even if a permanent alliance were set up, this would now be reduced to "contact."

"Denounce this terrorist act" (automatically declares war on Datajack Roze)

"Maintain extreme caution, we'll wait and see what happens first."

"Congratulate Roze on her achievement." (+2 relations with Data Angels)


I could foresee a few instances which would make an event like this occur. One is where the Data Angels overthrew Morgan specifically because they were dissatisfied with some major decision of his. Something which could trigger this would be if Morgan had capitulated to some other faction. Cases where capitulation and vassal agreements have been arranged should greatly increase the chance of civil war or outright assassination. Suffering terrible military defeats, or wars which the citizens should deem terribly unjust should also increase the chances of something like this happening. Assassinating your own leader also stops any current wars.

Of course, if we ever implemented this possibility for the player, we would always make it so that the assassination was merely attempted.

 

[The_Reckoning]

Maybe you could have a voluntary event, too?

Like a notice of how a political movement in a base seems to be gaining momentum, and have asked for independence. You could grant the base independence and the other faction would start off as a vassal with a massive relations boost, like normal vassals. And you get a free tech or GP or something as compensation for losing your base.

 

[Anon Zytose]

The thought of unrest causing an attempt at assassination or a usurping makes me think of back in Civ2 when too many cases of civil disorder would cause your government to collapse... whether you want it to or not. Considering I don't recall seeing this in later games, I think there might be a reason the creators removed it.

In any case, an event that causes part of one's faction to split off can be potentially crippling, especially if one or two of the cities had secret projects in them. Something like this probably shouldn't even happen to someone who isn't in first or second place.

 

[The Beard]

Well, I think that the possibility for a civil war is only really possible for a huge faction which is spread out over a large area--where one region is looking for independence (this sort of thing is already in civ iv, where you can choose to liberate a region. I think for the smaller factions, only a takeover is really possible. It would be much more likely that a full takeover would take place in a smaller state than in a larger one.

And this is an even which I would only see happening at most once or twice within one game. Times when it would be more likely to happen would also be triggered by if someone is declared supreme leader, then other factions who would go along with it might face civil wars or takeovers in order to attempt to overthrow the supreme leader.

Also, cities with secret projects tend to be happier anyway, so I doubt they would really be tempted to break off as much as other cities, so I'm not sure if the secret project thing is much of a problem.

 

[The_Reckoning]

The purpose of splits is, as far as I assume, to:
- Break mid/late-game monotony.
- Prevent/delay the "mopping up" point [where you're so far in the lead that there's no chance whatsoever of you losing, and the game is just a case of 'mopping up'. Ideally this would keep the game competetive.].
- Prevent/delay the opposite, where someone is so far in the lead that you have no chance of winning. Sometimes an AI can just steamroll some other factions at the start, and spread over a continent by themselves. By the time you meet they're way ahead of you.

So I definitely think they'd be a worthy addition.

Ideally it could be coded that:

- The faction which begins having splits is leader in number of cities and population, by a certain %age margin.
- Later than X date/tech. [so it doesn't happen too early]
- Base splitting off are the most recently founded/conquered cities in the empire.

This way you would only get either border colonies or conquested land declaring independence.

Also civics/SE would ideally play an important role in the extremity and the probability of splits happening. So Yang running a planned police state is less likely to have serious trouble than Lal running a democratic free market power-valuing society.


How hard do you think this would be to code?

There's already a lot of mods which add things like this out there, so maybe they could be copied and tweaked?

 

[The Beard]

Yes, and perhaps the factions which don't make sense to rise out of any other faction other than the obvious parent faction (such as the Conciousness), could still be coded to come out of University cities, even if you are, for example, the Lord's Believers.

The splits would also make it much more difficult to achieve a domination victory--perhaps it is better, sometimes, to simply raze all the cities you capture? Puts some more interesting moral choices into play there--should I murder millions in order to achieve greatness?

Of course I should.

 

[Anon Zytose]

So what happens if you want to start a game as the Cybernetic Consciousness or Free Drones or whatever?

 

[Deon]

I don't think a fun way of faction splitting with the current number of factions. We need more factions for this (at least because I usually play with a lot of Rivals, it's more fun and competitive). And for now we do not have enough factions to do it.
The best way to do it is to add new factions which will fit in this concept. Noone said we should have just vanilla SMAC factions, but we shouldn't go too far from the SMAC base world.
I.E. "Children of future"(random name) split from university - scientists who deny the moral principles and do anything to achieve the superknowledge, thus having some nice traits. Or "Raiders", "a landlubber faction for t' sea pirates", which appears if they settle some cities close on the shore. There're a lot of possibilities, just start a new brain-storming thread.

 

[The_Reckoning]

I do like the factions in SManiac

 

[Duneflower]

Yeah, hint-hint Maniac. I especially like the Republic, and I have another faction I've been working on on-and-off who could potentially split from the Hive, the U, and a couple of others...

I'm also behind the idea of borrowing a trick from RFC - that is, some factions starting late even if chosen from the beginning, notably the aliens and Cult. I could also potentially see the ... well, any of the SMAX facs, really; but those three definitely.

 

[redazncommieDXP]

The Planet Cult was always a chilling faction, flavor-wise. I'd love to see them put into the game.

 

[Buster's Uncle]

I've been thinking along simular lines for SMAC(X) mods. I'd like to humbly call your attention to the very bottom line-up of downloadable faction graphics in SMAC format on my custon factions page. I'm working on completing the set of all 14 alt. official factions.

I'll grant that splinters of splinters are more than a bit much for your purposes... Most of this is outside your purpose, in fact, but there's no split-off faction available for the Believers, for instance, and Darsnan invented one that I made up sum, whatchacall, purty pitures fer.

Feel free to use whatever you like. If any of this is useful for more than the broadest ideas, (Many of which are Darsnan's) I'd like to be alerted and credited. I don't hang out in this particular forum, so a PM or post on the AC forum to give me a heads-up would be a good idea if there's anything I need to respond to or know.

 

[Deon]

Ho-ho, necrothreaders .

For now I'd love the Revolution modcomp to be integrated. It's perfect for such things.

 

[Buster's Uncle]

I resent the hell outta that Deon- the last post was only a few months ago, and I don't deserve it for trying to be helpful.

 

[Deon]

I didn't mean you, look at redazncommie's post: Apr 25, 2008 - > Jan 25, 2009

And yeah, this would be a nice change.