SMAN's The Ancient World at War (AWAW)

[sman1975]

@askmarcoanything - I made a few design notes for a global WW2 scenario, or even a Pacific Theater scenario, but didn't get very far along. The problem was designing a decent scenario management engine (SME) that twists AI behavior into something resembling rational game play. While it's almost possible to develop one for the Pacific scenario, it's way beyond my expertise/available time to come up with one. Look at this AWAW - it's almost all database changes, with no SME at all, and it's taken 3 months (so far)...

The main problem is the AI simply doesn't behave like a normal player would in an existential conflict. While human players are cranking out infantry, air units, carriers, etc., AI civs will still be building cultural and scientific buildings, trying to win a cultural victory, even though that victory condition has been disabled. There's not a good method for you to "order" an AI unit to move to tile X/Y. There are a couple that you can use, but as these orders are quickly overwritten by other game logic, the effects are ephemeral at best. I tend to look at those methods as "suggestions" more than actual orders. On a small-focused map, like Europe, these flaws aren't so obvious. However, when you put it on a large focus map, the performance of the AI is quite disappointing. It's one of the reasons I haven't pursued these efforts very far.

 

[sman1975]

@YINGCHENG - Thanks! I appreciate the help. At this point, I think all I need are the names, without the background. While, it might be interesting to use such information somehow for Field Marshals, at the moment they're basically just glorified Great Generals. So only the names will be needed. Keep 'em coming!

Currently testing the Quick version of the mods, and fixing a lot of errors in the AWAW Events code. This part of the mod was about 1400 lines of code that I wrote in a couple of days. So, as you can imagine, there are more than a few, uh, "typos..." Still, it's starting to perform a lot better, looks like some actual thought went into the mod design.

 

[sman1975]

Hello. Quiet day today. Got a Covid shot, and the Mrs. demanded I take the day off..

Am almost finished with the Marathon timing testing, Quick-Standard-Epic all done. About the last few things I need to test before release.

To simplify the mod design a bit, I'm thinking about stripping out the AWAW Events feature, and the Mercenaries and Slaves units out, to publish in "companion mods" - so players can bypass those features if they're not interested in them. Actually speeds up testing/release of the main AWAW mod. I'm still planning on releasing 0.0 without the unit namer script, then work on it while y'all are testing the first version. Will add it in to the final "initial" version.

Here are a few screen shots/branding pix, to give you some idea how the final version will look:



Back to work tomorrow....

 

[sman1975]

@askmarcoanything, @YINGCHENG - Concerning the Namer script. I have a question: I'd originally only planned to use Roman numerals for units created in the Classical Era, and quickly rename them once the Civ entered Medieval Era.

Doing a bit of research, and am seeing instances of use of Roman numerals as far back as 900 B.C. - in the Ancient Era, albeit a bit late (4000-499 B.C. in game terms), but about 400 years of so within Ancient.

Question: How do you feel about using Roman numerals for Ancient Era units as well? Most of the units use Greek names, so this might look a bit disconnected. Perhaps if I only used Roman numerals on "Main" or "Late" unit types?

Interested in your opinion. Thanks!

P.s. Almost done with Marathon speed timing testing. Man, what a pain in the ass...

Do you have any opinions about stripping the Mercenaries, Events, and Slave units out of the main AWAW mod and move them into "companion mods" (mods that are optional for AWAW, but can also be used in the normal game without any AWAW/WAW enabled)?

 

[sman1975]

Quick update: Game Speed testing is over - finally! In fact, all testing on the mod is complete. The dreaded "Steam Packet" is also complete.

Work remaining: I still have about 15 small/quick fixes/changes to make to the baseline code, as well as strip out all the Mercenary, Slaves, and Events (those are going into separate mods, so that people not interested in those aspects of the game don't have to deal with them). There's a small bit of risk of legacy code corrupting the new baseline, or some "dependency" not accounted for. I'll ran a couple of quick test games to make sure the baseline is stable. The good news about all that: we'll have 3 "companion mods" out quite quickly...

So, the long wait is almost over. I'm not sure I can, but my intent is to publish the new baseline on Steam tomorrow.

I'll add a post here about the kinds of test data I'm looking for from anyone playing V0.0 - the data critical to making sure the mod is ready to publish in its initial, non-BETA form.

Appreciate your patience!

 

[askmarcoanything]

With regards to the Roman numbering system, I personally would stick to Arabic numerals throughout all eras. Regardless, the choice is yours on how you'd like to proceed!

Can't wait to experience the companion mods! Super excited to try them out!

 

[sman1975]

But don't the Roman numerals look sooooo much cooler? I'm actually thinking more about the scenarios at this point - when I get to the Second Punic War Scenario, seeing "Legio XXIII" on the map would look so much better than the "23rd Legion", at least to me. Was even thinking about using actual "names" of the Roman legions as honorifics, but wasn't sure how fair that would be to other civs.

The companion mods will take a few days to finish, even though the code is actually complete. There is some testing required, plus yet another Steam packet to put together. The "Soldiers of Fortune" (Mercs) and "Slavery" mods are completed done/tested, but "The Black Swan" (events) hasn't been tested rigorously enough yet. I have tested each of the 31 possible events, but just a few instances for each event. I need to put each event through about 50 cases, just to see how they respond. Each test is actually not to hard to do or time-consuming, but getting through all of them takes a bit of time. So, The Black Swan will be the last of the 3 release. Mercs will be first.

None of the work remaining is too bad, but each mod will take a day or two, and I'm quite eager to get to the five "End at ... Era" mods - as they were very popular early on when the main WAW mod came out. Each of them will take a few hours as well.

Nothing complicated, nothing difficult, but a lot of these ankle biters add up to one big dog over time...


EDIT: Quick update - testing on the FINAL V0.0 completed. Am cleaning up code right now, preparing the "feedback functions" (that will fill up the LUA logs to facilitate testing), will add them to the version I publish. It's definitely going up to Steam tomorrow.

Final version weighs in at 40 MB, so I think I can publish here on Civfanatics as well.

Either way, it's out TOMORROW!

 

[sman1975]

Quick update - am wrapping up testing of the "mega-mod" (AWAW + WAW). Found a $#%)(*$# bug that took 2 hours to fix - related to how badly the methods touching Team Tech table require handling with kit gloves. Basically have to set up several statements to "protect" data going into and out of the methods, to prevent CTDs. Really put me behind schedule, unfortunately.

The good news is I have one more autorun test game to complete, then it's off to Steam I'll go. Basically, I'm rebuilding the mod one last time, then running it through a full game with the mega-mod enabled, just to make sure it's stable enough to release. I'm hoping to have it out tonight, but am running out of time...

 

[YINGCHENG]

Hi Sman, don’t stress yourself too much. I believe We all can wait one more turn for the proper release of the mod.

 

[sman1975]

Appreciate it. The problem is for the last test, I turned all the movement and combat animations on (usually leave them off for testing) - just to make sure the models are stable during long games. Unfortunately, this dramatically slows the test game down. In a Quick game speed, I'm averaging 50 game turns per hour. So far, the game has ran for 3 hours, but it's only up to GT 151. Looks like it will take another 3-4 hours to complete the game.

The good news, knock on wood, is that the mod is stable, no crashes at all on the last few test games. Hopefully, that's a good sign.

So, I don't think the mod will publish tonight, but I should be able to get it up on Steam sometime early tomorrow.

 

[sman1975]

Good morning! The "complete test" game wrapped up around 2 this morning. Seven hours to run about 400 game turns! But this isn't surprising, as when the movement and combat animations are enabled, the game isn't much quicker than playing it manually. At any rate, a complete run, no crashes, and the logs look exactly like they're supposed to.

So, I've completely rebuilt a clean version of the mod, and am running it through one last test game on a Huge map (no animations, though!), using the "to publish" version of the mod - just to make sure there aren't any obvious issues with it. Should wrap that up in about an hour. After that, I'll review the LUA log file, and if no issues, I hope to publish this afternoon (it will take about an hour to get the Steam packet uploaded, and all the pictures in the right order).

On the Steam page, I'll upload a "Test Objectives" post, to give you some ideas of things to watch for when playing the mod. It has quite an extensive scope, with many changes, so the learning curve will be a bit steeper than most mods. Hopefully, it won't be too painful.

I'm expecting to collect feedback for the next 2-3 weeks, which should give me time to get some Companion Mods published. At that point, I'll update the mod based on what's reported. If there is something game-breaking, I'll hotfix it immediately.

Thanks.

 

[sman1975]

At long last.... The mod is published!!!!

Steam Link: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2422701461

I'll look at posting it here on Civfanatics in the morning.

Appreciate all the sage advice and patience in helping me drag this one across the finish line. I know it's in BETA status, and will require a lot of lipstick over the next few weeks, but at least it's out there for everyone to try out and evaluate.

If you see anything to report back to me, please look at the Bugs/Suggestions posts in the "Discussions" tab on Steam, or leave a message here.

Enjoy!

 

[arievillo]

Congratulations man! I will start a game now and kill my curiosity. Cheers!

 

[YINGCHENG]

Hi Sman, first of all, congratulations for the release of this mod. After 50 turns of the game with the mod enabled, it is very stable and the mod really gives more varieties and possibilities to the game. There is one issue that I would love to draw your immediate intention. After I enable both AWAW and The world at war (of course with its submods such as unique units and improvements) I found my that the tech tree was kind of screwed. Please take a look at the photos I attached to this post. Let me know if it is a mod conflict issue, and if I can help to tackle this issue, please instruct me what files you would love to see. Thank you very much.

 

[sman1975]

What other mods were enabled? I know that WAW's Irregular Units mod corrupts the look of the tree, but not the workings of it. Perhaps there's another mod that behaves the same way?

 

[YINGCHENG]

Hi Sman, after several testings, I found that with The world at war - modern terrain improvements being enabled, the looking of entire tech tree corrupted.

 

[sman1975]

Odd, I got a report on Steam yesterday about a person having problems with the Mega-Mod (AWAW+WAW), The Monarchs, WAW Modern Terrain Improvements, and WAW Irregular Units combination enabled. Removed them one-by-one until I isolated the problem to WAW-IU. When I removed that mod from the 5 mod combo, the tech tree worked fine with the other 4.

Just tested AWAW + WAW-MTI, and AWAW + WAW + WAW-MTI, and had no issues with the tech tree in both cases. I know the WAW-IU breaks the look of the tech tree, but at least on my computer, it looks and works like it's supposed to.

I'll hotfix WAW-IR in the next few days. Hopefully, after players experiment for a week or so, we'll know if the corrupted tech tree is the only problem with that combination.

Perhaps if you cleared the game cache and tried again? It often removes these little problems that aren't really problems. And with mods like AWAW and WAW, it adjusts the databases so much, it's not surprising there could be anomalies creeping into the tables. Starting with a pristine version of the databases often removes the possibility of things like this popping in.

Clear Cache Instructions: https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/2422701461/4164113537233794675/


One last question: the error you noticed, was it just a "cosmetic" problem? Or did it cause problems during the game somehow?

Thanks for the report - keep 'em coming!

 

[YINGCHENG]

After 100 turns of the game with all of your mods except the Irregular units one being enabled, I would say it is only a “cosmetic issue”, it does not really cause any problems that fundamentally prevent me from playing the game.
Yeah, I did clear my cache file every time when I tested those mods, and today I found that the WAW-MTI was most likely the culprit. I will test more games very soon to make sure if that is really the case from my experiments.
Overall, I think the mod is in a stable condition. It runs very well. I really enjoy this mod and I wish I could have more time to play.

one suggestion I would make so far is that in my last two games with the Mega mods, I got one general, one field marshal and another general called something Augustus all at once after I killed some barbarians. I am not sure if it is intentional or not, but it is pretty funny to see that I could have got more generals than my common units in the ancient era.

Another suggestion is that after I researched the tech that enabled me to have caravan in the game, I still could not establish a trade route cause the game showed me that I had no trading units. It was odd that I have to got more advanced techs to actually build trade routes. I am not sure if it was only happened in my game, or it is a general issue.

after all of those above, everything else works well. More testing games are needed to provide you some meaningful comments.


in the end, thank you again for the mod. It is great.

 

[sman1975]

It's odd that MTI corrupts the tech tree for you but not for me. There must be some other mod conflict. I know for a fact that Irregular Units corrupts the tree. I'm wondering is there's a different mod besides the 5 mentioned in Post #137 that you're using that might cause this problem. Could you provide me a complete list of the mods you have enabled?

The Field Marshal spawning concerns me. They have a cost of -1, meaning they can't be trained normally, so human players should never get one. They were awarded by the "Events" code, but when I stripped those functions out into a new mod, I forgot to change the price of Field Marshals. I suppose the GG spawned because it was the proper time for that to happen, based on killing enough units. Why 2 spawned, and an FM with it puzzles me. The "Legatus Augusti" is the Level 1 (Classical Era) Field Marshal unit. If the "Field Marshal" unit appeared, it's Level 3, supposedly only available after the discovery of Conscription (Enlightenment) - and this is really confusing... I'll probably just give them a cost to build, and hopefully this will prevent them from spawning the same way GG's do. However, from past experience, units with a "Great General" promotion sometimes behave oddly. More testing like what you're seeing will help getting the unit working better.

Caravans are enabled at Urbanism, but you're right that this tech doesn't impact the number of trade routes (the InternationalTradeRoutesChange entry in the Technologies database). I'll add this change to the next version - where Urbanism bumps the trade route number by 1. Good catch! There are probably more than a few things like this, where all the logic/relationships just don't quite agree.

Glad you're liking it. Appreciate the feedback!

 

[YINGCHENG]

Hi Sman, after additional testings, I still find out that the WAW-MTI is the culprit of corrupted tech tree in my game. My list of mod enabled is addressed below:
Sman’s Aztec Unit pack
Sman’s Privy council -the monarch
Sman’s the ancient world at war
Sman’s the world at war- Unique units
Sman’s the world at war- modern terrain improvements

after I cleared my cache file and enabled all of mods above except the MTI, the tech tree was in order.

the second try I cleared my cache file and enabled all of mods above and the MTI, the tech tree was corrupted.

the third attempt I cleared my cache file and only enabled AWAW+WAW+WAW-MTI, I found that the tech tree was corrupted. It is really odd cause logically WAW-MTI should not really affect anything related to the tech tree.

After all, I think that is not a big deal that really needs to draw you attention atm, cause it technically does not break the game. Perhaps I should redownload the MTI and the WAW and see if it would be fixed. Anyway, I will provide more feedbacks later on.